Episode 73

Breaking the Code: Unlocking Business Expansion with Azim Sahu-Kahn

Get ready to shift your perspective and break old habits. Tune in as we talk to business strategy wizard Azim Sahu-Kahn to unravel the intricacies of maintaining a healthy balance between ownership and active involvement in business operations. Dive into Azim's awe-inspiring entrepreneurial journey and his innovative methodologies for setting up fail-proof systems that assure smooth operations.

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Transcript
Anthony Perl:

Welcome to Biz Bites brought to you by CommTogether, helping

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businesses like yours build their brand

through telling amazing stories to engage

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and grow audiences on multiple platforms.

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Well, hello everyone, and welcome

to another episode of Biz Bites.

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And well, I was, I was thinking about how

I introduce my Next guest on the program,

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uh, supermind is one area of expertise.

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Uh, another is.

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The gift wrapped in sandpaper.

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Um, I think what we're going

to get out of the program today

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is a whole lot of insights.

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And I know we were talking just

before we started the recording.

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And part of that is it, it's

a different way of thinking.

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It's trying to, um, I guess,

expand your mind into ways.

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That you can achieve things that

perhaps you hadn't otherwise thought of.

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And I know one thing that we will

talk about much later on in the

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podcast is around the six idea of

a six week vacation, something that

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most business owners would like to

take, but don't know how to do it.

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Uh, so without further ado, here

is the, the man behind it all.

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Uh, Azeem Sahoo Khan.

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Thank you for joining us and

being a guest on Biz Bites.

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Azim Sahu Kahn: Oh, thanks very

much for having me, Anthony.

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It's always a pleasure to, to just talk,

you know, it's, it's, it's awesome.

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Anthony Perl: I love it.

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And I know we've, uh, we've had a

couple of chats already and, uh, I

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know we, we will, this is going to

be something that, uh, I think the

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listeners are going to really enjoy.

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So let's start off with, I mean, I've

given a bit of a basic introduction

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to it, but, um, it very, very broad, I

think, give me a little bit more specific.

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How do you introduce what, what you

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Azim Sahu Kahn: do?

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Okay, so there's a, there's a

couple of things, Anthony, so maybe

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we should qualify a little bit

where I got that moniker of the

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gift wrapped in sandpaper from.

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And, one of the things that, one of the

opening questions I will do with any

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business owner, so just to give you a

bit of a background, I, I'm really a

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business success guide, um, I don't call

myself a coach or an advisor because

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a guide goes with you on the journey.

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So the best analogy is a travel agent.

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They'll, uh, find your hotel for you,

book it for you, book your flights, do

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all that sort of thing, wave you goodbye,

and if you've got a good agent, they'll

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call you when you get back, right?

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But it is someone you can

call in case of an emergency.

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Whereas the guide, Anthony, will

come with you and say, Anthony,

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let's go over here and look at this.

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Here's a great place to eat.

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Anthony, don't eat that because it will

probably kill you, and just check the

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pillow for bed bugs before you go to bed.

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I'm in there with my, my, my clients

because, um, and, and, and I guess his one

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leaning is, is, is a point of view I have.

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Um, I'm not on the podcast to be popular,

Anthony, so, um, you'll have to excuse

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me if I take a contrarian point of view.

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Um, look, one of the whole, probably,

I can't think of a better word, is

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deficiencies of the whole coaching

advisory, and to some degree, the

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consulting industries, is the fact

that if I've qualified you well enough.

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in terms of you know what and what do

I mean by qualified it means Anthony I

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can actually help you make a difference

in your business it's not about how much

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money you've got whether you fit the you

know fit the demographic whatever it's I

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know for me qualifying someone to work it

means that I know that I can help them.

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I can guide them to what it is

that they say, that's important,

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that they say they want, right?

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So, once that engagement happens,

we start working together.

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It's not always the same thing, Anthony.

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What they say they want and what,

what they actually really want

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can, is quite often different.

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Um, but once I engage with somebody,

once we start, decide to work

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together, to co create the solution,

so to speak, my role then becomes

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Someone who won't let you fail, right?

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And you'll hear coaches and

advisors saying, Oh, Anthony,

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I can't want it more than you.

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And I don't know.

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And that's basically cop out, right?

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So if I know that the result

you're seeking is within

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your business and within you.

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Then my role changes.

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It's to support you and, uh, you know,

uh, one of my good friends, which you've

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also had on the show, you know, Mr.

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Simon Bowen, you know, he will say

when you're on a particular path,

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you tend not to fall off that path.

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Uh, we call it the green line.

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You will behave your way off that path.

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Right?

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So that gives you a bit of a, my point

of view around the whole industry.

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So when I engage with people

really, I have two points of view.

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One is the first is.

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How will your life be better

because you work with me?

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That's, I guess, my

guiding North Star, right?

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And I ask, I ask clients that.

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How will the lives of the people

that you serve with your products and

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services be better because of you, right?

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It's a tough question for

a lot of people, right?

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Um, and from my perspective,

that's the first thing.

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And the second thing is, is, is

my role is not to let you fail.

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So one of my, and this is where

the sandpaper thing comes from,

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because one of the first questions

I'll ask a business, right?

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And, you know, I would say you and

I were looking at working together.

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I'll say, Anthony, lovely to meet you.

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Now, now tell me, Anthony, um,

why isn't your business twice

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the size that it is today?

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Okay.

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And that's kind of the open issue.

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That's the kind of opening thing.

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Because unless perhaps you're Elon

Musk or somebody like that, uh, who's

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flying off to Mars, there's a good

chance that somebody else is doing

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something very similar to what you're

doing, and they're twice your size.

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So what that actually means, Anthony,

is not that you're no good at

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what you do, it just means there's

something you don't know yet.

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Right?

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Yes.

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That sets the scene.

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Now, the second question, which is

really the important question, and I'll

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say this in keynotes and all the time,

I say, so Anthony, what do you need to

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stop doing to allow your business to

grow to the size that you want it to be?

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And it's usually like a little bit of a,

you know, like you like the blue touch

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paper and stand well back, you know,

the old thing on the fireworks and you

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can see this little fuse burning through

people's brains and all of a sudden

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it's just like confessional Anthony, you

know, Oh, I need to let go of more stuff.

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I need to stop micromanaging.

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I need to stop procrastinating about this.

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I need to trust my team more

and, and they'll go all through

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these, this whole rant things.

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And I'll just nod politely and all

those sorts of things and take notes.

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And then at the end of it, we'll usually

find there's three to five things in

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there, Anthony, that are the things that

will really move your business forward.

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And the third part, just to sum it

up is, all right, let's just do those

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things then, and you know, people

will say all the time, you know,

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Zim, I don't know what, I don't know.

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And I'll say, but that's not the problem.

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The real problem is you

don't do what you do know.

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Yes.

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Anthony Perl: It's, it's

a really interesting take.

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I love that sort of spin on it.

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And I've, I've often been

challenged as well on that concept

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of what should you stop doing?

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And, um, and I think the

interesting part about that is.

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Is, it's almost a leading question in,

in that for the majority of people,

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the answer is, is they're the own.

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They're, they're often the block, right?

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Oh, sure.

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To, to the business going further than it,

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Azim Sahu Kahn: than it

has the bottleneck's always

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at the top of the bottle.

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Anthony funny about that,

bloody about that, you know,

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Anthony Perl: and it's a, and but

it's an important one, isn't it?

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It's and, and I think.

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The challenge with that is it's one thing

to recognize that it's another thing

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to be able to implement it, isn't it?

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It's, it's, it's easy to say, well,

I should stop procrastinating, um,

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over, over certain things, but how

do you actually change that behavior?

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Correct.

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Azim Sahu Kahn: I mean, look,

the first thing is realizing

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that that's part of the problem.

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Then the second thing is, because like,

you know, a lot of the work I do is

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helping people, um, with the systems in

their business, not, not the software,

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but the actual systems in their business.

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And, and, and the truth of the

matter is that most businesses

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are collections of habits.

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Rather than systems, and they usually

own his habits, and not all of

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them are good, Anthony, trust me.

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Okay?

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Okay.

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So, so really business, here's

the business, but it's really a

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collection of habits, and it's also

the habits of the people working there.

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When I was starting out, well, over,

well over a decade ago, uh, in the

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consulting game, you know, I would

often do a secret shop of the reception,

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before I went to see a prospect

who'd never spoken to me before.

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So then I actually had their customer

experience of being someone touching

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their business for the first time,

because really your brand promises

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how I feel when I interact with you.

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Not, not what you say, you

know, Maya Angelou said it best.

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They'll forget what you said, but

they'll remember how you made them feel.

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So I would often go into a business

and say, so, you know, um, um,

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miss CEO, CEO there, um, you know,

well, what's the process, you

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know, what happens when somebody

rings and, and, and speaks to you?

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Oh, well, they come to our reception

and their reception says this, this,

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and this, and I said, you know what,

that's actually not what happens

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and they'll go, what do you mean?

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And then in the early days, I used to

actually keep a recording of the call,

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which I didn't distribute because it

was illegal, but I would play it to

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them and say, This is what happens.

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And they went, Oh my goodness.

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I actually had one guy basically

almost leap over the desk wanting

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to throttle his receptionist, but

I averted that, which is good.

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So the first part, when you're talking

about procrastinating is, you know,

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Let's just find out what is actually

happening, what is happening, right?

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And then, what then, then we can drill

down to why that procrastination happens.

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And often, often it's, you know, and

I don't want to get into the woo woo

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side of things, but at the end of

the day, it does boil down to some

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of your subconscious thinking, right?

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So you procrastinate normally.

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Think about yourself, Anthony,

like the things you would normally

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procrastinate on, I think you'd

actually don't want to do that.

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I'm like, Oh yes.

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Doing your best return.

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Doesn't light anybody up

except for your account.

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Oh, no.

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Anthony Perl: Yes.

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Yes.

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That's why I have a

bookkeeper and accountant.

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That was when I was a bit, when I

started out in the business, that was.

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Absolutely.

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The number one thing that I

was, uh, procrastinating over.

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Um, exactly that, because

you summed it up beautifully.

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It's, it is more often than not the

task that you do not want to do.

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Correct.

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Azim Sahu Kahn: Correct.

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And, you know, and, and, and we will be

sharing an exercise later that I do with

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many clients, uh, when on their way to

the six week vacation, but procrastination

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is, um, that's one of the things

it's, it's usually out of alignment.

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to what you want to do.

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And if everybody just thinks for

a little while and say, you know,

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there's a point in the day, not

every day, but, um, there's a point

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in the day where you, where you

just like, don't feel great, right.

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About something that you're

about to do, or you have to do.

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And then you just say, what

would make me happy right now?

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And even the thought of what would

make you happy right now, usually fixes

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you not feeling so good at that time.

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Now I had a client just, um,

two weeks ago, um, as part of

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the, the supermind that I run.

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And she's a great marketer.

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In fact, she's got a

marketing agency, right?

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She's a great marketer, um, doing great

sales, uh, but she hates doing the sale.

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She can do them, because obviously

they've got good revenue, but

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she hates doing that part of it.

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She generates the leads beautifully,

great warm leads, I should hope

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so, she's a marketing agent, right?

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Great, but when she does the selling,

it doesn't light her up at all.

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And then we were having a one on

one together and going through these

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things because we had to, um, we

wanted to extract her out of the

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operation of the business, which

obviously includes sales, right?

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And I just said, well,

Just don't do them then.

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And we put together a plan to give a

commission only salesperson and how that

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would work and how it worked really well.

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And she just like sat back.

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I could see the weight coming off

her and she went, that's amazing.

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She goes, you're the

first business advisor.

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Everyone else is, Oh, you could try this.

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You can try this technique and tactics.

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And this goes back to what I call the,

the coach advisory machine, right?

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They're just popping out coaches

that advise left, right, and center.

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And, and then that realization

just in itself was, I can do that.

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I feel like I've got

permission to do that.

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Of course you can do that.

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Right.

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And, and, and that's often what

causes the bottleneck in the business.

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Is that the owner feels that they

need to be doing something that, you

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know, what just doesn't line them up.

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Anthony Perl: Yeah.

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And it's, and it is a really difficult

thing because, you know, most

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businesses start off with one person

and, uh, so you are doing everything.

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So that idea of letting go, first of all,

there's a difficult, uh, a difficult one.

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And then.

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You know, it's, and it's that there

are certain things that you go,

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okay, like you said, we can get rid

of the, the bookkeeping part of it.

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That's fine.

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We can kind of get our heads around

that, but then you might get around

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some of the admin part where you

go, okay, well, that's admin.

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It's not so precious, but when you

start getting into the things that

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really make the business tick,

the sales and marketing area, uh,

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those are difficult ones for many.

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To get rid of because they believe

they're the only person that can do it.

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Right.

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And, uh, it's, it's a real.

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That mindset and changing, shifting that.

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And as you say, getting the permission

to be able to do it is half the battle.

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Azim Sahu Kahn: Oh, absolutely.

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And, you know, um, I was speaking

to a, um, a client not that long

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ago, um, very large company,

um, and couldn't understand.

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Why he wouldn't let go of some

of the stuff he was doing as CEO.

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Big team, right?

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He had like three other people at

his C level, if you like, right?

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And there was just some things that he

really shouldn't, should have let go of.

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And to the point where some

of it became meddling in other

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people's responsibilities, right?

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But not on purpose, it

just happened that way.

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Anyway, so I broke the whole pattern

while we were talking and I said, by

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the way, and, uh, let's just call him

Andrew for the sake of this call, right?

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I said, by the way, Andrew, um, do

you have any brothers and sisters?

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And he went, yeah, actually,

I'm, I'm the youngest of five.

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And I said, well, that's awesome.

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I said, I'm the youngest of six.

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I said, well, I'm the youngest of five.

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And, and, and here, Anthony,

this is what happened.

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It turned out Andrew has, um,

one sister and five brothers.

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And he's the youngest and when

he was getting, so the guys

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in his fifties now, right?

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When he was a kid, if he put in, and

he said, Oh, you know, he used to have

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all my toys in my little backpack,

which I used to carry everywhere.

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And that clued me up.

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I said, so why don't you carry your toys

everywhere in your backpack, Andrew?

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And he said, because if I put them

down, my brothers would take them.

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And I said, you're doing that

right now in your business.

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And he looked at me and he just like

the realization of just came across

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his face was, I'm doing that right

now and I said, yeah, let the toys go.

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Anthony Perl: But isn't it, I love

how, um, you know, maybe, maybe

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we maybe as consultants sometimes

where this frustrated psychologist.

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Yeah, they're delving deeper into these,

into these stories and understanding it.

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And look at, I know.

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Uh, I know for my, for myself that

I look at things and I go, yeah,

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that's a product of my upbringing and,

uh, and having to, to change that.

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And I know it's one of the, one of

the things that I love doing in this.

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And so I'm going to, I'm going to

deliberately do it because you've

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given me a beautiful lead in, uh,

and to change tech just a little

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bit for a little while, because I

want to understand how you got here.

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So what was, what was, when you go

back to the little version of you.

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So what was the, what was the dream?

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What did you want to be when

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Azim Sahu Kahn: you grew up?

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Oh, okay.

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I wanted to be a number of

things when I grew up, right?

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Um, I wanted to be, at one point

I wanted to be a racing driver.

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Um, another point I wanted to be a

fighter pilot, um, somewhere in there

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I actually wanted to be prime minister,

but, but, you know, it was a very tiny,

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it was only a momentary lapse in, I think

I bumped my head or something, right?

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And uh, and as I got a little

bit older, you know, I wanted

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to be a, uh, a musician, right?

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And play on stage and

all that sort of thing.

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Now, the good thing is.

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I've actually done all three of those

except for being a fighter pilot.

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I have flown and I did many, many years

ago, have an attempt on, I flew gliders

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and I had an attempt on the Australian,

um, altitude record, uh, back down at

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Jindabyne and, and so being over 20,

000 feet in a plane with no engine,

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um, is a great experience, right?

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So.

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So to answer your question, Adrenaline

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Anthony Perl: junkie a little bit

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Azim Sahu Kahn: there.

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Maybe a little bit.

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Yeah.

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And, uh, and I've, and I've

raced cars still, um, not that

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long ago and very successfully.

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And I actually have a Facebook

group, uh, of motorsport enthusiasts,

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uh, not enthusiasts, I've

actually worked in the industry.

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I've got some people from Formula One

teams and drivers, about:

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So I'm still very heavily involved.

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So that's been a passion.

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So I'm very grateful that the

things I thought I wanted to do,

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I've actually been able to do.

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So how did I end up here?

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Did I ever dream that I would

be a, um, uh, you know, a

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business success consultant?

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Um, no, right?

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Have I always been an entrepreneur?

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Yes.

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But it only was recently where I

actually backtracked and looked at

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it and I thought, you know what,

you were always like this, okay?

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Um, so like, you know, when I was in

primary school, so I would have been the

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ripe old age of about eight, I think,

I, um, went home and I, Got a bucket of

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sand and, and I, uh, put a bowl in the

sand and pulled the bowl out and put

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shells and, and driftwood in there and

then poured it full of wax and put a,

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put a wick in it and, and I made this

whole stock of driftwood candles and

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took them to school and all the teachers

bought them and I thought, you know

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what, that was actually entrepreneurship.

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Right?

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And, uh, well, they bought

them off me because I was just,

355

:

you know, it was to humor me.

356

:

It doesn't matter.

357

:

I made them, I sold

them at a profit, right?

358

:

So it was all good.

359

:

So I've been doing that sort of

thing since I was very young.

360

:

And, you know, I've had, um, uh,

we've had a number of cafes, a

361

:

number of businesses along the way.

362

:

Um, and so after all of that, I did

this exercise, which I actually do now.

363

:

And it's actually an exercise the

listeners If you set yourself a

364

:

little timer of about 10 minutes

and If you had, if money and time

365

:

were no objects, right, were no, no

obstructions to you, what would you do?

366

:

What would you see?

367

:

And what would you have, right?

368

:

And you spend 10 minutes just down

there, you know, I want to climb

369

:

Mount Kilimanjaro, you know, I want

to have that Ferrari, I want to have

370

:

that beach house, you know, somebody

may just want to have a decent set of

371

:

clothes and be able to eat out five

times a week, doesn't matter, right?

372

:

And you just pump it out,

you just pump it out.

373

:

And after 10 minutes.

374

:

When the timer goes off, you stop, and

then you think, and then you ask yourself

375

:

this question, what would you do now?

376

:

And I did that exercise probably about

15 years ago now, and what came up

377

:

for me was that I would, I wanted to

help people be the best they could be.

378

:

And I've really been advising and

even my staff over the years, you

379

:

know, really coaching the staff into,

you know, into, to how they could

380

:

get to where they wanted to get.

381

:

I was a senior, senior, um, uh, manager

at Microsoft managing the whole regional

382

:

support center many, many years ago in the

nineties, you know, I had a crew of 30.

383

:

And I was always interested in, even

if what they want to do didn't keep

384

:

them in the company, I would help them

find that job outside of the company.

385

:

If that was what, not because

they're a bad performer.

386

:

A great performer was a job, right?

387

:

And, you know, and that's a

really thing because there's

388

:

a segue from that, Anthony.

389

:

So this is a bit like a tennis match.

390

:

You segue and I'm segueing back, you

know, it's a bit like the old, right?

391

:

Tennis match, right?

392

:

Um, so, um, by the way, this is, that was

my sound effect, not Anthony's, right?

393

:

Anyway, anyway, so, uh, So

here's the interesting thing.

394

:

I had a, I have a, uh, an old client and

in New Zealand, see, one of the things

395

:

we talk about is extracting the owner

from the operation of the business.

396

:

So they can lean into the 10

percent of the magic that is them.

397

:

Everybody's out there saying, Oh, you

know, scale your business, do this and

398

:

have it run without you, which is fine.

399

:

And sit on the beach and do nothing.

400

:

Nobody actually wants to really do that.

401

:

If, if they're in alignment with

what their business is about, right?

402

:

So that's part of this whole six week

vacation and most of the work I do.

403

:

So when I was, I was helping my

client purchase a new business.

404

:

So he'd finished where he was and, uh,

uh, we were purchasing business and we, we

405

:

spoke to like, um, a number of different

manufacturing, um, founder, like you

406

:

said, before the founder started them,

been in the business 20 or 30 years or

407

:

so right now getting ready to exit their

business, which everybody has, Hey, you

408

:

know, you need to exit your business,

which also by the way, can be incorrect,

409

:

but, uh, we'll talk about that later.

410

:

Um, so what they, um, What we

did was one of them actually had,

411

:

um, some health problems, right?

412

:

So take him off the board,

but all of the others.

413

:

had some version of, if you buy

my business, I'd be happy to

414

:

come back and work as part of the

team for as long as you need me.

415

:

This wasn't an earn out.

416

:

They just wanted to go back and do that

thing without having to worry about the

417

:

bookkeeping, without having to worry

about the staff and who didn't turn up

418

:

for work today and ordering and supply.

419

:

They just wanted to go back to being

that single person doing the thing.

420

:

But my, my, my, um, perspective

and my point of view is see.

421

:

We're living a lot longer than

we're used to, Anthony, right?

422

:

So the reality is, and here's a fun fact

for you, since:

423

:

um, our average life expectancy worldwide

has gone up by three months every year.

424

:

Yep.

425

:

So for every four years, you get

a bonus year in, okay, and, and I,

426

:

I never like to say how old I am.

427

:

I say I've, I've hit now, I'm

happy to share it on the show.

428

:

You know, I've hit level 61 in

this great game of life, right?

429

:

And for every four years I

go, I get a bonus year, right?

430

:

So when you gamify it,

you're not 61 years old.

431

:

I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm a level 61.

432

:

My mom's at level 97 man, right?

433

:

And she's still going hard.

434

:

Okay.

435

:

So.

436

:

But here's the interesting thing.

437

:

As you

438

:

Anthony Perl: like to say, you're

here for a long time and a good time.

439

:

That's

440

:

Azim Sahu Kahn: it.

441

:

That's it.

442

:

There's no reason.

443

:

But here's the important part.

444

:

We used to retire at 60.

445

:

Because we generally

didn't live past 65, right?

446

:

Yeah.

447

:

And this is the first time in

history, in history, Anthony,

448

:

that we've had five generations

in the workforce at the same time.

449

:

There are 80 year olds still working.

450

:

So here's the problem with the old,

and I'm happy to say it, the old way

451

:

of thinking of Build your business,

get it ready to exit your business, put

452

:

your system in it, sell it and exit it.

453

:

Well, first of all, you've just capped

the value at that point in time, right?

454

:

And the other thing is the money

stops coming in flowing at that.

455

:

Of course, people have other

businesses, other investments, I

456

:

get all that, but we're just talking

about a single business, right?

457

:

Which a lot of people have, because

they've spent, you know, 30 years

458

:

slaving away at this business and the

saying goes, you know, I've worked

459

:

hard to work this hard, Anthony, right?

460

:

Okay.

461

:

So, you know, you go through that.

462

:

Okay.

463

:

So.

464

:

My, uh, my point of view around business

is let's capture the habits, turn them

465

:

into systems, have your business work

automatically so you can go out and

466

:

do the thing that you really love and

create an ATM into your future, right?

467

:

So if you've got a business that's

throwing off 80, 000 or 100, 000 a

468

:

year to you, Anthony, for turning

up for maybe at worst 12 meetings

469

:

a year, maybe four meetings a year,

that's a really good life, isn't it?

470

:

Because, think about it, when I have

conversations with people saying,

471

:

Oh, you know, I want to do this, and

I want to exit my business as in,

472

:

and I say, look, that's fantastic.

473

:

Um, so what are you going

to do with the money?

474

:

Right?

475

:

And they say, okay, well, they always

feel they've got to, um, they say,

476

:

well, we're going to pay off the kid's

mortgage, and all these wonderful things.

477

:

But somewhere they feel responsible

and say, you know, well, I'm

478

:

going to invest some of it as in.

479

:

Okay, that's great.

480

:

What are you going to invest it in?

481

:

And then somewhere in that, They will

say something that looks like shares

482

:

or stocks us and I'll do the, you

may not be old enough to remember

483

:

Colombo, Anthony, like he used to do.

484

:

Oh, I do.

485

:

I do remember.

486

:

So I used to do that thing just before

we got to the door and turn around.

487

:

Right.

488

:

And I'll do that.

489

:

I'll just scratch my head and I'll go,

okay, so Anthony, let's use your reason.

490

:

So Anthony, you're going

to sell your business.

491

:

and which is a point in time and you're

going to take that money and you've got

492

:

it that's generating you this money all

the time has been funding your lifestyle

493

:

and you're going to take some of that

money and you're in 100 percent of

494

:

control and you take some of that money

and put it in another business that

495

:

you've got very small Shareholding in,

you're not gonna have any control over

496

:

what happens and hope you get a return.

497

:

How does that work?

498

:

You know, if you buy Facebook shares,

Mark Zuckerberg isn't going to

499

:

ring you Anthony and say, Hey, I'm

thinking of changing the name to Meta.

500

:

It's just not going to happen, is it?

501

:

And people fall for this thing.

502

:

Whereas if you can make a business

or create your business that has

503

:

complete business reliability,

which is what we aim for.

504

:

Then you can, first of all, you still,

if you're not in it, then the number

505

:

of people you can sell it to suddenly

is tenfold because a lot of businesses

506

:

are sold because people buy a new job.

507

:

That's what they do.

508

:

Right.

509

:

But if you've got a business that's

throwing off money, a hundred K a

510

:

year, well, that's a nice lifestyle.

511

:

All right.

512

:

And for a lot of people, 50 K a year is

fine because they have other investments.

513

:

So, you know, there's a thousand

dollars a week coming to you.

514

:

Right.

515

:

But now you still have a

very small Salable asset.

516

:

So people say, Oh, I want

to get a scalable business.

517

:

Well, when you scale the business, you

know, and Simon and I've had this summer,

518

:

Bowen and I've had this discussion is a

scalable business is purely a business

519

:

that has increasing speed of execution

and diminishing cost of execution.

520

:

It's like getting a black

belt in any martial art.

521

:

You've done the basics,

you know, congratulations.

522

:

You've done what you meant to

do is have a scalable business,

523

:

but a scalable business.

524

:

Is something else, right?

525

:

It's

526

:

Anthony Perl: a, it's a very interesting

space that and, um, I know that, uh,

527

:

aside from what I'm doing and my focus

is a really around podcasts and you

528

:

talked about, um, getting back to what

you really love doing and hence the

529

:

reason I'm, I'm in this space, but,

uh, I've teamed together with a couple

530

:

of people to help businesses become

more exitable and, and we've Yeah.

531

:

Use that term exitable, which

is not actually a word, believe

532

:

it or not, but everyone kind of

assumes and understands what it is.

533

:

Yes, because we, because I think the

thing is, is that, um, we realize much

534

:

along what you've said is that there's

a point where people might actually find

535

:

that they, the business is going much

better and therefore they love it much

536

:

more and don't actually want to sell it.

537

:

So making it exitable gives

them the option of when to do

538

:

that and sets them up for that.

539

:

Doesn't mean they have to do it.

540

:

And, uh, but I think it is a, as you

say, it's, it's a mindset as well in

541

:

that in order for a business to be

exitable, you need, uh, you need to

542

:

have a strategy for how that business

owner can step away and the business can

543

:

continue and even go better once they

have moved away from that and whether

544

:

that means that the, uh, that the owner

becomes, uh, You know, remains the owner

545

:

and just has a passive involvement,

uh, or whether it means a sale, either

546

:

way, the point is, is that you need

to have new experts running the thing.

547

:

Azim Sahu Kahn: Absolutely.

548

:

Anthony.

549

:

And I think some of the things is that

the owner had the original vision.

550

:

And if they can stay in a position where

they can still have that influence.

551

:

over the vision, but maybe some of

the strategies and tactics to keep

552

:

that vision, right, may change, may

be different, right, because, you

553

:

know, as the saying goes, you know,

what got you here won't get you,

554

:

you know, get you the next point.

555

:

So, and then to work in that space,

Is, um, I mean, you know, everybody

556

:

uses the example, but if, if, if,

if Steve Jobs was still around

557

:

Apple would probably be a different

company to what it is today, right?

558

:

If they were still

sharing his vision, right.

559

:

Of what it is.

560

:

So, um, and that's just one example, but

there are many examples around of that.

561

:

So the idea of having an exitable

business is once you also know how

562

:

to do it, then why not, like we were

talking about shares and stuff before,

563

:

well, my personal Point of view around

this and my personal goal is to have,

564

:

you know, five to seven businesses.

565

:

That I own in that state,

generating me revenue and I have

566

:

my own, you know, SMP 5, right?

567

:

Okay.

568

:

Yeah.

569

:

I can have direct influence

and it's totally independent of

570

:

the stock market then, right?

571

:

And it's something I can do.

572

:

So with any business owner who I

essentially, I mean, it's the old thing

573

:

people say, you know, um, feed the man a

fish you're feeding for a day, teach the

574

:

man a fish you're feeding for a lifetime.

575

:

So here's a really

contrarian point of view.

576

:

Today, Anthony, people want the fish.

577

:

Right?

578

:

If I can push a button right now and

have Amazon deliver me something by 9 p.

579

:

m.

580

:

tonight for the listeners It's

quarter past 3 in the afternoon.

581

:

I just want the freaking fish, man All

right, and the salad and the chips and

582

:

the tarte sauce teach me how to fish by

all means But right now I need a fish.

583

:

Okay.

584

:

Yep So but here's the thing is I

am still open to learning about the

585

:

fishing And this comes back to what

I said at the start of our interview

586

:

was sometimes you do have to help

the business owner fish, right?

587

:

I mean, I personally have sat in

rooms and, and, and, you know,

588

:

done presentations to boards of

the first customer for a client.

589

:

They weren't even in the room, you know,

I've helped raise capital for people.

590

:

They're not even in the room.

591

:

Sometimes you have to do it.

592

:

And that's, that's what

makes me slightly different.

593

:

And I enjoy it as you

can hear my voice, right?

594

:

I enjoy that stuff.

595

:

Because, you know, when I have, um, when

I have a, a, a client as a, I do a lot

596

:

of work in the franchisee and franchise

also, but when I had a, a client in New

597

:

Zealand stand up at their, their franchise

conference and say in front of the crowd,

598

:

um, you know, uh, we worked with the Zim

for 18 months and it was the first time

599

:

in eight years that we took a month off

And visited Australia by, to visit our,

600

:

our son and his family and didn't worry

at all that the business would be run,

601

:

you know, rock solid while we were there.

602

:

That, first of all, it humbled me, but

second of all, it just made me feel

603

:

so good because that was the outcome.

604

:

That's the outcome.

605

:

He was able to step away from that.

606

:

And in fact, you know, they do, um, yeah,

so there's a lot of stories around that.

607

:

But it just gives you this sense

of, um, you know, we take out

608

:

insurance for all sorts of things.

609

:

But the reality is, the best insurance

you can have in a business is great

610

:

systems, you know, um, James Clear

says it, you know, you don't rise

611

:

to the level of your goals, you fall

to the level of your systems, right?

612

:

And it's so true.

613

:

It's so true.

614

:

Anthony Perl: And it's something that most

businesses don't have properly in place.

615

:

No, not at all.

616

:

And, uh, particularly those businesses

that have been brought up by a business

617

:

owner who has had his fingers in every

pie for, um, you know, going back to

618

:

its infancy and has struggled to let go.

619

:

And those things really make it

challenging to actually get that

620

:

documented because there's always

that attitude isn't there of.

621

:

Well, it's easy to just do it myself

than to bother explaining how to do it.

622

:

Azim Sahu Kahn: Well.

623

:

Um, what's his name?

624

:

Uh, uh, I've forgotten his

name right at the moment.

625

:

Um, one of, he basically said, and

it'll come to me in a second, he

626

:

basically said that if you can't

explain what you're doing as a

627

:

process, you dunno what you're doing.

628

:

And, uh, uh, you know, and it,

and it is so true and I, and I

629

:

have fun at, when I'm doing, um,

conferences and stuff, uh, Anthony.

630

:

I'll get people to write down the

process that they do for brushing

631

:

their teeth, uh, in the morning.

632

:

And I get them to write the whole thing

down and we give them toothbrushes and

633

:

say, right now swap your instructions

with the person next to you.

634

:

And everyone's got a new toothbrush

and we say we want the person next

635

:

to you to go through the motions.

636

:

And just the laughter and raucousness

of what happens after that is a You,

637

:

what, you don't rinse your toothbrush

down because it's been sitting out

638

:

there exposed all night and the

cockroaches could have run over it.

639

:

You don't rinse it before

you put the toothpaste on.

640

:

Other people put the toothpaste

on and then they wet it and

641

:

just, it just goes nuts.

642

:

I mean everybody laughs, right?

643

:

And then, and so the truth is

there's something that's subconscious

644

:

but it is actually a system.

645

:

And then when they sit down and

explain it, that's when it gets hard.

646

:

You know, I mean, um, uh, Joshua

Lissac, the, uh, the great ghost writer.

647

:

He actually says, um, something

very, very cool, that if you can set

648

:

something up, so that if you follow

it, like Lego, if you follow the

649

:

instructions with no steps skipped,

you'll get the picture on the box.

650

:

And that's what I aim to do with

business because every problem, and I've

651

:

had this open argument, every problem

in a business boils down to a system

652

:

that's not there or one that's broken.

653

:

I had, I had somebody ring me from,

um, uh, another country and say,

654

:

Hey, you know, we've got this person.

655

:

They, they're, um, uh, they, they

want to take us to, to court of unfair

656

:

dismissal and all that sort of thing.

657

:

So we drilled into it.

658

:

And what had actually happened was

The person had gone 95 days, so it

659

:

was a 90 day probation period, 95

days, so three days, before they

660

:

let them know that they were going

to not continue with them, right?

661

:

But because they hadn't informed them,

they thought that they had the job, right?

662

:

So then they said, well, I was

dismissed from the job, when in fact

663

:

they were being let, well, they,

the owner thought they were let go.

664

:

Anyway, we got it sorted

out, everybody was happy.

665

:

But then I came back and said,

okay, so what system's broken there?

666

:

And then I said, okay, so

what's your onboarding system?

667

:

Our onboarding what?

668

:

Was the answer, right?

669

:

And I said, right.

670

:

So when you put someone on, we've

already put in place that the person

671

:

should be here at 30 days, here

at 60 days, and here at 90 days.

672

:

So the moment that person comes on,

now you're putting in a good, in your

673

:

calendar, just simple as a Google alert,

and it's now part of the process, that

674

:

in 80 days, you review this new employee.

675

:

So that will never happen again.

676

:

But there was a, that wasn't there

as an onboarding system, right?

677

:

It had nothing to do with

the performance of anybody.

678

:

It just had the fact that it's so simple,

679

:

Anthony Perl: some of these things.

680

:

And, uh, and I think

that's the point, isn't it?

681

:

That we don't necessarily

think about all of these steps

682

:

that can make a huge impact.

683

:

On an outcome and how people feel, I

think that's 1 of the, the important

684

:

parts as well as is how you make people

feel is often more important than

685

:

whether you're going to give them a

bonus or all sorts of other things.

686

:

Uh, you know, I just had this discussion

with a client of mine where he was

687

:

happened to be telling me about.

688

:

Uh, a role within the business.

689

:

Actually, they've taken someone

else that was in a more junior

690

:

role and they've ramped them up.

691

:

And I said, that's such a great story.

692

:

You've got to tell people about it.

693

:

But I said, aside from

telling people about it.

694

:

Have a think about the impact that

it's going to be on this person when

695

:

publicly the organization says how

wonderful it is that this person

696

:

has been able to step up and she's

doing a great job in the new role.

697

:

That is everything.

698

:

And it is those little things, as

you say, the little reviews, the

699

:

opportunities to remind people.

700

:

It just makes such a big difference.

701

:

Hope you've been enjoying

the conversation so far.

702

:

We look forward to bringing you part

two in the next episode of Biz Bytes.

703

:

Biz Bytes is brought to you by

Com2gether for all your marketing needs.

704

:

So you can build your brand,

engage audiences on multiple

705

:

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706

:

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707

:

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Anthony Perl

Anthony is an engagement specialist, building a great catalogue of podcasts of his own and helping others get it done for them. Anthony has spent more than 30 years building brands and growing audiences. His experience includes working in the media (2UE, 2GB, Channel Ten, among others) to working in the corporate and not-for-profit sectors, and for the last 13 years as a small business owner with CommTogether. The business covers branding to websites - all things strategic around marketing. Now podcasts have become central to his business, finding a niche in helping people publish their own, making it easy.