Episode 120
Virtual CFO Revolution: How to Transform Your Business Finances for the AI Age | Biz Bites
In this episode, we welcome Deb and Jeremy, a married couple and co-founders of a virtual CFO and bookkeeping business. They share their journey from traditional tax accounting to a forward-looking approach focused on business growth, highlighting the unique aspects of being spouses and business partners.
Their discussion covers the evolution of their services, the importance of collaboration with tax accountants, and their experience acquiring another business and managing a remote team.
Looking ahead, they explore the significant impact of AI on their industry, envisioning a future with automated bookkeeping and a transformation of roles for financial professionals, emphasizing the need for skilled individuals to guide and utilize these emerging technologies.
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Connect with Jeremy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-harris-a5705926/
Connect with Jeremy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deborahharris-investedcfo/
Check out their website - https://www.growcfoco.com/
We do a cash flow strategy session and referrers get 10% of the revenue for it. It is 1500 and it is where we take the numbers of the business through our diagnostic tools and then spend 2 hours with the entrepreneur showing them what levers to pull and push in their business to make the most strategic sense.
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Transcript
The virtual CFO Revolution, how to Transform Your Business
Speaker:finances for the AI age.
Speaker:Today we're exploring game changing insights about modern financial
Speaker:leadership with the co-founders of Grow CFO, Debra and Jeremy Harris,
Speaker:who also happen to be married, and I've known them for many years.
Speaker:And I can tell you they're genuine thought leaders who consistently give back.
Speaker:To the broader and business community, you'll discover why traditional accounting
Speaker:isn't enough anymore in this day and age, and how virtual CFOs are driving business
Speaker:growth and the essential steps to prepare your finances for the AI revolution.
Speaker:If you are ready to move beyond managing the bank balance and want to dramatically
Speaker:increase your business value, this is an episode packed with practical
Speaker:strategies you can implement today.
Speaker:So let's dive in with my friends, Deb and Jeremy.
Speaker:Well, hello everyone and welcome to a, a really exciting episode of Biz Bites.
Speaker:And I say that because I've had the privilege of knowing Deb and Jeremy
Speaker:for many years now, and we always have fun talk, talking together, and
Speaker:they've got an extraordinary business.
Speaker:And I wanted to, uh, share ev with the audience all about their business.
Speaker:So, first of all, welcome to both of you.
Speaker:And, uh, well, why don't we kick off with you, Jeremy, why don't
Speaker:you introduce both of you and, uh, and what the business does.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Thank you very much Elene.
Speaker:Thanks for having us.
Speaker:Uh, well my name is Jeremy and I'm here with Deborah.
Speaker:We are co-founders and co-directors in a business.
Speaker:Uh, we also, uh, happened to be, have been married for 33 years.
Speaker:Uh, and actually we did that first before we went into business together.
Speaker:So our business is, uh, we do virtual CFO as in chief financial
Speaker:officer, and we have a bookkeeping team to back that up as well.
Speaker:For me personally, I was, uh, around 25 years as a tax accountant.
Speaker:Took me that long to figure out that tax accounting was not my thing.
Speaker:The kind of accounting that we do is more of about, uh, forward facing.
Speaker:More about what's in the future for a business and how do we help
Speaker:a business to grow and improve.
Speaker:Uh, Deborah's background is from, uh, a quantification point of view is hr, uh,
Speaker:and has had a lot of years in, uh, dealing with people, including our five children.
Speaker:Uh, and, uh, and she really leads the, the people and the
Speaker:systems side of our business.
Speaker:There's so much that we are going to explore in this, but I actually wanna
Speaker:start with, and I know it was a bit of a throwaway line about the fact that
Speaker:you, you know, you, you started the business after you, you came together,
Speaker:but there aren't, I, I suppose there are, there are a lot of people that, that go
Speaker:into business together in partnership.
Speaker:It's even more difficult to do it when you are married to that
Speaker:person and to make that decision even after you've been married for
Speaker:a little while, and to then do it.
Speaker:How do you, how did that impact kind of the relationship in,
Speaker:in being able to pull that off?
Speaker:'cause I, you know, it's not easy.
Speaker:I wanna take that one first, and I'm sure we've both got fruits on this.
Speaker:Um, I, uh, it, it's, it's really easy on a topic like this to make jokes about it.
Speaker:Uh, but there's obviously like, like a, a real, uh, intentional
Speaker:and serious side to it as well.
Speaker:For me, being in a partnership in business with somebody else
Speaker:initially, uh, or with other people.
Speaker:Uh, Debra then came in and started working in our business over those years.
Speaker:It became really clear to me that I wanted for us to be doing something together,
Speaker:uh, and that that was a way to actually parallel our goals and our aspirations of
Speaker:what we wanted to do in business and the impact that we wanna make with, uh, our
Speaker:relationship and having fun doing it at the same time, and being able to do those
Speaker:things together instead of just every day.
Speaker:Going apart and coming back together again and, and not having that common purpose.
Speaker:Uh, there's, um, there's, there's certainly times when it is a, uh, we
Speaker:need to be very present to the impact that business has on our relationship
Speaker:or the other way around as well.
Speaker:Um, and, uh, and actually we're probably both really of the same.
Speaker:We, we approach it in a similar way where.
Speaker:Uh, we, uh, sometimes there's, there's no boundaries, but we actually know
Speaker:that we need to put boundaries in.
Speaker:Uh, but it, it hasn't caused any disruption from my point of view.
Speaker:Are you to say the same thing, Jeff?
Speaker:Well, it became very evident when Jeremy was coming home very, uh,
Speaker:he, he wasn't loving his business and it was because he had a partner
Speaker:that didn't necessarily agree.
Speaker:With the same vision that he had for the business.
Speaker:And it's typical in an accounting firm that a senior partner brings
Speaker:in junior partners, and then the senior partner leaves and the junior
Speaker:partners are stuck with each other.
Speaker:And while the other partner had his own thoughts and ideas, it wasn't the same
Speaker:set of thoughts and ideas as what Jeremy had and what Jeremy wanted to run with.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:That and the fact that I already knew that my husband was struggling with
Speaker:the fact that tax accounting is about as interesting as stabbing yourself
Speaker:repeatedly in the leg with a fork.
Speaker:And he really didn't wanna do that anymore.
Speaker:And we, we had this belief that our, the accounting fraternity were letting down
Speaker:business owners, and by that I mean, they.
Speaker:They would come to their tax accountant.
Speaker:And you'd get the financials for the year end often.
Speaker:Well after the end of the year.
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Speaker:So that, and the fact that I already knew that my husband was struggling with
Speaker:the fact that tax accounting is about as interesting as stabbing yourself
Speaker:repeatedly in the leg with a fork.
Speaker:And he really didn't wanna do that anymore.
Speaker:And we, we had this belief that our, the accounting fraternity
Speaker:were letting down business owners.
Speaker:And by that I mean they, they would come to their tax accountant and you'd
Speaker:get the financials for the year end, often, well after the end of the year.
Speaker:And a great big tax bill and a great big invoice.
Speaker:And see you, see you next year and you are left with thinking, well, if I've
Speaker:made such a profit, where's the money?
Speaker:And so that was a driving factor for us about switching it up and
Speaker:trying to start something new.
Speaker:So we started the CFO engagements within that business, but it became clear that
Speaker:the type of people we needed to do those engagements was completely different.
Speaker:So people who are trained to report on the past.
Speaker:Not necessarily trained to, uh, forecast the future.
Speaker:So that was the big difference between the types of people we then
Speaker:had to engage in our new business.
Speaker:So we started it as a side hustle and rolled it out to its own
Speaker:business in June or July, 2019.
Speaker:And then, and, and we also did what most people find completely strange is that
Speaker:even though Jeremy had been, uh, the main.
Speaker:Partner in the accounting firm.
Speaker:We flipped it so that I was running as CEO across this business because I had
Speaker:the broader business experience and broader business skillset, uh, having
Speaker:done human resource development, but really it was part of a management degree.
Speaker:So I had more of a taste of those other things.
Speaker:So whenever we do find ourselves.
Speaker:In that situation where you haven't quite broken off for the day and
Speaker:you, you take that home with you.
Speaker:And for us, we work from home.
Speaker:So home is where everything happens.
Speaker:I'll sometimes find myself, uh, walking out my office door
Speaker:and going, hi honey, I'm home.
Speaker:And it's just like, it just breaks the energy, right?
Speaker:So, and there might be no one else in the house, and I will still do that if I
Speaker:need to break the tension and break the energy and then move on to other things.
Speaker:I'm sure Jeremy's got the recordings of you doing that while you're, while
Speaker:you're at home alone, doesn't want us being, uh, I mean, I, I hear what
Speaker:you're saying too because I, I do that as well where I work from home
Speaker:and, uh, there has to be that break.
Speaker:And particularly for me, Fridays is the, is the even bigger one where, you
Speaker:know, my kids know when it's Friday because they say dad's in silly mode.
Speaker:Um, but it, it, it, it's a deliberate.
Speaker:Attempt to break that energy and, and to get out of work mode.
Speaker:'cause it's, and I think that's the thing that, you know, that's
Speaker:also the interesting dynamic that you've got here is, is that
Speaker:you're working from home as well.
Speaker:So that is even tougher when it comes to, you know, relationship and
Speaker:building and having those boundaries.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Can be, doesn't have to be, it's about how you set it up really.
Speaker:I think.
Speaker:I think we're good at.
Speaker:Catching each other and catching ourselves.
Speaker:When we can feel that, um, that something is starting to impact on our evening
Speaker:or on our personal relationship, we just, we can, we can pause it and park
Speaker:it and pick it up at the right time.
Speaker:I I, just before we move on from all of this topic, I wanted to, to bring
Speaker:up something else that I know you guys do, because I remember you've told me
Speaker:about it before and I think is really fascinating is, is that because you've
Speaker:got this kind of reporting scenario, you, you actually have your own kind
Speaker:of mini board meeting, don't you?
Speaker:Between the two of you?
Speaker:Yeah, we do.
Speaker:And uh, sometimes that gets a little bit impacted and lately it's, uh,
Speaker:we've struggled a bit to keep that rhythm up because the business is
Speaker:growing, but it, it's just a matter of.
Speaker:Leaning in on checking in on each part of the business.
Speaker:So being mindful of the fact that you have to do it as though you are,
Speaker:if you go, if you go from that perspective, it's as though you are
Speaker:on a board and you're looking down from a height at what's happening.
Speaker:So you, I believe in, in, on and above.
Speaker:So in your business, you're working as a worker on your business.
Speaker:You're working as a manager.
Speaker:But above your business, you're working as an investor and you're looking at your
Speaker:business from an investment perspective.
Speaker:What does this investment need to make it progress further?
Speaker:What does this investment need me to do in three to five years time?
Speaker:How much capital value there be in it?
Speaker:So it's a different conversation, so it may, it needs its own space.
Speaker:And Anthony, to bring in a point that you've already highlighted
Speaker:about working from home.
Speaker:When we have that board meeting, we'll go offsite as well.
Speaker:'cause uh, we think it's important to do that in a different environment.
Speaker:I think what's fascinating too, by what you just said, and Jerry,
Speaker:I want your perspective, is that what you are really doing with your
Speaker:business is what you're doing with other people's businesses, isn't it?
Speaker:It's, it's, you're taking that, that high level approach, uh, to
Speaker:really see where things are going and where they should be going.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:It's, uh.
Speaker:Well, coming back to, to the core of, of what we do with virtual CFO
Speaker:and bookkeeping, uh, one of the things that we talk about is that tax
Speaker:accounting, which is what I used to do, is looking backwards, looking in
Speaker:the rear view mirror about the past.
Speaker:And that's important.
Speaker:Somebody has to do it.
Speaker:Uh, there's compliance obligations to be met.
Speaker:Uh, and uh, and actually one of the really liberating things for
Speaker:us in the last couple of years.
Speaker:Is to actually have our own tax accountant now.
Speaker:Uh, I feel like a real business owner because I've got a tax accountant, so
Speaker:I'm not doing it anymore, uh, myself.
Speaker:So that is about the past.
Speaker:Uh, the virtual CFO is about the future.
Speaker:It is, uh, understanding what are the numbers telling us about
Speaker:a business and how does that help us to map the path forward.
Speaker:To help business owners to connect that into their goals and aspirations.
Speaker:What we found is that there was a missing piece, which is quite often
Speaker:before we could do our CFO work, our, our analysis and our dashboards and our
Speaker:forecasting, we were held up by data that was out of date or just not correct.
Speaker:So we added a bookkeeping element.
Speaker:And on that continuum where tax is about the past, CFO is about the future.
Speaker:Bookkeeping is about the present and that, uh, so our bookkeeping team is able
Speaker:to make sure that the numbers are right for our CFO team to then do their magic.
Speaker:Uh, and our CFOs don't need to be doing bookkeeping work first before
Speaker:they can get into the CFO work.
Speaker:So how closely do you then work with accountants then, who are.
Speaker:Jumping in I, I imagine as well, with a lot of these businesses.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, much more closely actually, than what we anticipated.
Speaker:Um, from my time in as a tax accountant in that part of the industry, I had
Speaker:experienced a lot of, um, a, a lot of, uh, a trend towards doing more.
Speaker:Uh, the commenter was business advisory work.
Speaker:And to be wanting to do more of that with clients.
Speaker:But meantime, there's this competing, uh, increased pressure on compliance
Speaker:work because regulations keep on changing and also keep on increasing.
Speaker:The amount of regulation keeps on increasing, uh, and it's challenging
Speaker:to fine team to be doing that.
Speaker:So I think tax accountants are, uh, are, are probably as much
Speaker:short of time as they've ever been.
Speaker:So they haven't been able to get to that CFO work.
Speaker:I have some ca the tax accountants that say, where we have a mutual client
Speaker:and they say, I'm glad that they're finally getting somebody to help them
Speaker:with this because I've known that they need to, that somebody needs to.
Speaker:So, uh, for the most part, we, we have really cooperative relationships with tax
Speaker:accountants and, uh, which is important because we need to be doing our different
Speaker:parts of it for the better for the client.
Speaker:I mean, that kind of managing collaboration relationships,
Speaker:that is difficult.
Speaker:And there's lots of, there's lots of things for people to navigate in
Speaker:business as well, particularly when you might encounter businesses that are
Speaker:going to come into a relationship like this, thinking that you are competing
Speaker:or trying to steal something from them when that's not the case at all.
Speaker:So, so Deb, how much is it education process, how much is
Speaker:a relationship building process?
Speaker:How open do they have to be?
Speaker:When you start finding those collaborations through clients?
Speaker:I always start from the client first and say, what is your expectation
Speaker:of what do, what do you wanna see?
Speaker:What do you see as your ideal team?
Speaker:So they can very clearly articulate to us who they wanna have in the picture.
Speaker:And if they say, I want this person to do the bookkeeping and that person to do
Speaker:the accounting, and you guys just come in and do the CFO, then that's what we do.
Speaker:They know that we have the bookkeeping arm and we can help them, but we don't poach.
Speaker:And so we will then go, I, I had a situation just yesterday where, uh,
Speaker:I make notes and explain to the other person, the other professional in
Speaker:this space what needed to happen.
Speaker:So they, I was actually literally just going in for a pitching engagement
Speaker:to help them pitch to a corporate.
Speaker:And that was the extent of our engagement.
Speaker:And yet they have a tax accountant, they have bookkeepers and they
Speaker:have other business coaches there.
Speaker:And so I left notes for them to say, look, this is why we're doing what we're doing.
Speaker:This is how I'm doing it.
Speaker:I, I've adjusted this.
Speaker:I hope that's okay.
Speaker:It shouldn't impact any of your reporting.
Speaker:I checked on that.
Speaker:So it's just a professional courtesy more than anything to say, this is
Speaker:the space that we're holding for this client and this is the reason why.
Speaker:And if people get upset about the fact that they think that we're taking
Speaker:something from them, my response to that would be, why didn't you offer it?
Speaker:Because I can only take a piece that no one else is doing.
Speaker:If someone else was doing it and doing it well, the client would never come to me.
Speaker:They would go to the person who is their trusted advisor.
Speaker:So there's some, there's a disconnect there.
Speaker:It's not me taking, it's them not offering if there's a disconnect at all.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:We do find sometimes that the, the reason they're they're coming to us
Speaker:in the first place is because they're not happy with the service they've
Speaker:been getting and that they're planning to change and they just wanna know
Speaker:what the implications are going to be.
Speaker:That can happen too.
Speaker:So it is a, a big challenge.
Speaker:Sometimes we find, especially in the bookkeeping space, we'll
Speaker:sometimes find that, that the client's file isn't particularly, um.
Speaker:Well done.
Speaker:Let's just leave it that way.
Speaker:It's a bit messy.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and problem is because of the clients wouldn't necessarily know, would they?
Speaker:Because you, they tend to hand over everything to the bookkeeper and assume
Speaker:that they know what they're doing and live with what they're doing because
Speaker:they, you don't know any better until someone comes along and says, yeah.
Speaker:Uh, and, and I think you see that in lots of, I mean, I know personally,
Speaker:I've seen that in the marketing space where I had a client recently
Speaker:that came to me and showed me a.
Speaker:A new branding that they'd had done.
Speaker:And I kind of went, did you, did you go to like Upwork and get that?
Speaker:Like where did, where did that come from?
Speaker:What was the, why did, why did, what was the brief for that?
Speaker:Because that does not seem to make any sense for your brand at all.
Speaker:And that's, it's a, it's a difficult thing to navigate that, right?
Speaker:To make people aware of, to aware that there is a problem.
Speaker:But there's no, there's no need for it to be confrontational.
Speaker:It's, it's just like, uh, training your own team.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:We can't, there's something like 350 small to medium sized bus, micro,
Speaker:smaller and medium sized businesses, 350 million on the face of the earth.
Speaker:We can't serve that many people.
Speaker:Come on, there's plenty of real estate.
Speaker:There's enough for everybody.
Speaker:We don't need to be treading on all each other's toes.
Speaker:I think what we find is that sometimes there's a real, um, gem out there
Speaker:doing work in a client's file.
Speaker:If we need a new contractor to help us out and to, to white label, um,
Speaker:to us that, that's who we can ask.
Speaker:So it, it can actually be a great way of finding new team too.
Speaker:I was gonna say, Jeremy, that that's an interesting approach as well that you
Speaker:guys have in that you start looking at.
Speaker:Uh, where there are new opportunities, building from relationships, and even
Speaker:going to the point of acquiring other businesses, uh, that is correct.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Um, and you're, you're almost giving me a segue there to talk about ai.
Speaker:Um, but I think we'll get to that.
Speaker:Um, uh, yeah.
Speaker:Well, that, when I said before that we, we, we saw that the, the we,
Speaker:we, I talked about the continuum of the past and the future.
Speaker:The gap in the middle was the present.
Speaker:We identified, uh, a couple of years ago that one of our strategic
Speaker:opportunities would be to, uh, to acquire a business and that that
Speaker:could be in the bookkeeping space.
Speaker:So we had been doing some bookkeeping for our existing business owner
Speaker:clients before that, but it was really just to, to, to fill a gap.
Speaker:It was, uh, it, it, it was a much more.
Speaker:Strategic decision to actually have a whole bookkeeping team.
Speaker:Uh, and so we did that by acquiring an existing business, which then also
Speaker:gave us another group of business owners to talk to about, uh, the
Speaker:opportunities that, uh, that, that we can offer in the CFO services that
Speaker:we do as well, and the ways that we can help them to grow their business.
Speaker:And for quite a few of those, it's the first time that someone had had
Speaker:that kind of discussion with them.
Speaker:Uh, it's been really interesting to.
Speaker:Uh, to define the boundaries, but also just to play with, uh, like
Speaker:I, I'll call it bookkeeping plus.
Speaker:Uh, so beyond just keeping things reconciled and, and keeping it all
Speaker:in order, what are the little things that we can add, uh, that a bookkeeper
Speaker:can do because they've got the skills and the knowledge to do it, but that
Speaker:are really just super supercharging?
Speaker:The information that the business owner gets.
Speaker:So that even if they're not fully availing themselves of our CFO
Speaker:services, they're starting to get better decision making information.
Speaker:Why us just going that little extra 1% or 5% in what we do in keeping,
Speaker:I mean, Deb, when you start acquiring businesses as well.
Speaker:Then there's the people issue and, and navigating,
Speaker:navigating that balance, right?
Speaker:And bringing new people into the business and familiarizing yourself
Speaker:with systems, them and you, and, and finding that, how does that all work?
Speaker:Like that's a, that's in itself is quite a piece to navigate.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:That's, it was a really big challenge too, because we run from a virtual
Speaker:headquarters, and so the, when you acquire a business, not everybody
Speaker:understands how to work remotely.
Speaker:Not everybody wants to work remotely.
Speaker:We had to navigate that whole situation and it, we had, uh, we had attrition,
Speaker:we had all sorts of things happen.
Speaker:But we were able to stabilize it, settle it all down, and then just
Speaker:start to, to make sure that we had everything integrated well.
Speaker:We're still, uh, we're still looking at how we do our systems and processes.
Speaker:I think we probably would never, um, ever say that everything was all, all the
Speaker:systems and processes would all put to bed because with AI changing everything so
Speaker:rapidly, and particularly in our industry.
Speaker:We see this as a great opportunity for us and a great opportunity actually
Speaker:for AI to start doing some of the records management and that that type of
Speaker:approach that that knits everything in.
Speaker:And I can see in the future that there will actually be.
Speaker:A level of AI that you can plug into a business and say,
Speaker:this is the golden record.
Speaker:This is how we want things to happen, and that it just goes out and grabs it
Speaker:from other places and, and brings the new acquisitions seamlessly into the fold.
Speaker:I think that would be an amazing development, and I'm sure that
Speaker:it's something, I know I've been speaking to people already about
Speaker:that in that space, so it, there's a lot that happens when you.
Speaker:Bring on a new business and, uh, you learn sometimes from mistakes
Speaker:more than you learn from successes.
Speaker:And I think we had a few mistakes when we did it, but we, we definitely
Speaker:learned a lot about what we would do in the future if we did the same thing.
Speaker:We also learned about just, you know, the, the types of business to bring in and
Speaker:what to look for and how to look for that.
Speaker:We'd been doing mergers and acquisitions with some of our clients, so we were
Speaker:fairly much across what needed to happen, but some of the nuances of
Speaker:it were different with our industry, and so we just learned that quite
Speaker:grid of factions in the fire.
Speaker:One thing I'd add just on, on systems and processes, and I've seen this over many
Speaker:years of working with a lot of businesses, buying and selling businesses, as well
Speaker:as our own experience, is that, uh.
Speaker:Like it's a common, common premise that the more systemized a business is, the
Speaker:more valuable it is, uh, because it will be giving a consistent output.
Speaker:Within that.
Speaker:There can be a system or a series of the system can be the actual piece
Speaker:of software that's used, but it can also just be what is our approach and
Speaker:what is the way that we do things.
Speaker:But within that, there can be subsystems.
Speaker:That are not that obvious initially without really digging deep, if there's 10
Speaker:team members, there might be 10 subsystems as in 10 different ways of doing the
Speaker:same thing within the overall system.
Speaker:Uh, and that, so that's a real challenge to look for, uh, but is worth taking
Speaker:the time to look for because it makes a huge difference to the integration,
Speaker:uh, and to taking on that business.
Speaker:Uh, and the other thing I'd add just on, 'cause we're talking systems and people.
Speaker:Is, um, so Deb, what is that quote that one of our mentors uses?
Speaker:Culture is
Speaker:culture is the team.
Speaker:What product is to customer?
Speaker:So your client, if your client either loves or hates your product or
Speaker:somewhere near in between, your team either loves or hates the culture or
Speaker:they're meh, somewhere in between.
Speaker:And if you want to have a really great team, you need to
Speaker:have a really great culture.
Speaker:That's so important.
Speaker:And I think as well, I know that particularly, uh, and we've talked
Speaker:about it before outside of this podcast, but about remote teams as
Speaker:well, which are increasingly, uh, uh, you know, a thing for people.
Speaker:And that's still, you know, you still need to create that
Speaker:culture, even if people are.
Speaker:Split all over the world, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker:That's still an important part of, of the business.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:And ours are, ours are distributed across, um, we have a, someone
Speaker:dashboarding for us in Sri Lanka.
Speaker:We have team in India.
Speaker:We have team in the Philippines.
Speaker:We have team scattered across Australia.
Speaker:So uh, we bring them together in a virtual headquarters.
Speaker:They see each other every day.
Speaker:They can see.
Speaker:Who's in the office, they can just go and knock on their other person's office door.
Speaker:We try to bring that sense that it is just like you're just knocking
Speaker:on some, knocking on a physical door because it just gives people that
Speaker:sense that they're there and they belong, they're inside the building.
Speaker:Uh, that also gives them a sense of completion when they finish
Speaker:for the day that they exit the building so that they've.
Speaker:They can create that separation and it just runs in the background as a platform.
Speaker:But within that, we've been able to start using, uh, all of the AI that comes with
Speaker:that particular platform and developing our own AI and helping our team understand
Speaker:how to use AI assistance and AI agents.
Speaker:So it's been a real part of the progress for us.
Speaker:We, we were determined.
Speaker:I, I, I know myself as a leader.
Speaker:My role is to actually lead the way with ai because there's a lot of fear
Speaker:around bookkeeping in particular.
Speaker:There's AI agents out there now, AI overlays that you can put over it and
Speaker:see if it's, um, true and accurate.
Speaker:It still needs training.
Speaker:It's not, you couldn't just set and forget, but the thing about it is that.
Speaker:I don't employ bookkeepers.
Speaker:I, I employ people who at the moment do bookkeeping.
Speaker:And there's a distinction in that, in that at some point they might
Speaker:not do bookkeeping, but if they're really good people, I wanna keep
Speaker:them and I, I need to make sure they're ready to do the next thing.
Speaker:And that that thing lights them up so that they don't ever have to feel
Speaker:like they're going to be redundant.
Speaker:So that, that's part of leadership, as far as I'm concerned, is
Speaker:driving that, that space.
Speaker:And it's, and it's a tough one, but I, I, you know, it is, it is an important one.
Speaker:It is an important distinction as well because, and sometimes of course, of the
Speaker:people that come to you and are working in a particular space don't even realize
Speaker:that there's opportunities that that could be open to them to go somewhere
Speaker:else until they start experiencing it.
Speaker:So I think it's all part of a, part of a growth process.
Speaker:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker:Um, Jeremy just coming back to the AI thing and seeing how much of that
Speaker:influence is going to be, it's, it's, it's, you know, people would immediately
Speaker:think, oh, counting and, you know, numbers and areas are probably not
Speaker:a great space for ai, but in fact.
Speaker:Really a lot of automation.
Speaker:You know, if we extend AI to being into that automation space has been
Speaker:happening in this space, almost leading what's been happening in other areas.
Speaker:And so where is it going to go?
Speaker:That's the, that's the question.
Speaker:And how much do people need to be doing in their business?
Speaker:It's a very exciting space at the moment.
Speaker:Uh, very exciting.
Speaker:It's, uh, so if we look at, at bookkeeping.
Speaker:There was a real revolution, uh, 15 years ago, uh, when zero
Speaker:came out, uh, QuickBooks Online and others similar to that.
Speaker:So cloud accounting, that's all under the, the terminology of cloud
Speaker:accounting, but it's been feeling like it hasn't really advanced in that
Speaker:15 years and more and more over the last few years I've been thinking.
Speaker:And especially since we bought the bookkeeping business, I've been
Speaker:realizing how much human intervention is still required to, to get it right.
Speaker:Uh, it's the automation is, the bank data comes into the system.
Speaker:There's some suggestions, but it's not that, it's not smart in that sense of,
Speaker:of making sure that everything's right.
Speaker:I've shifted in the last couple of months from thinking, yeah, AI
Speaker:is on the horizon in our industry.
Speaker:To thinking it is here.
Speaker:There's a couple of programs in particular that are really making a difference.
Speaker:They're probably not quite there, but I think somewhere between, in the
Speaker:Australian market, somewhere between two months and six months from now, we
Speaker:will see what, uh, I would call robotic bookkeeping, where it is actually
Speaker:making the matches in the system, checking itself, getting it right, and
Speaker:continually learning as well as it goes.
Speaker:And we'll still lead the training.
Speaker:I. But, uh, that training will make it more and more reliable instead of it
Speaker:just being rules that can be subject to, uh, to, to human error or to to change.
Speaker:So that's one thing in, in the bookkeeping, in the CFO side of what
Speaker:we do, uh, one of the reasons that I sold my tax accounting firm, uh, eight
Speaker:years ago now, is that I had said to my team a couple of years before that
Speaker:Zero has changed what we do it, it's.
Speaker:What we do as accountants, as tax accountants is totally different
Speaker:now to what it was 10 years ago.
Speaker:Uh, similar to the data is in the system for us.
Speaker:We're not spending our time just data entering into the system.
Speaker:Uh, we've, and we've got live information.
Speaker:Let's not kid ourselves that, that term I used before.
Speaker:But business advisory can't be automated in the future as well.
Speaker:There's a code behind it.
Speaker:If I look at a set of financial statements and I say, oh, that Pat, there's something
Speaker:wrong between those two numbers or those two crews of time, or, oh, I can
Speaker:see what's wrong with the cash flow.
Speaker:Here's what should happen next.
Speaker:There's a code behind that.
Speaker:There's an algorithm that can be codified.
Speaker:Uh, when I said that 10 years ago, my team kind of freaked out.
Speaker:So that was probably one of the things that under me to realize that I didn't fit
Speaker:my team anymore and to sell the matter.
Speaker:I was sitting there, but.
Speaker:I was sitting around that table and it was the funniest moment around the board
Speaker:table and just watching everybody's faces go white, just looking at, they just
Speaker:went that, no, that's, that can't happen.
Speaker:What about our jobs?
Speaker:And it was interesting to see that, that beer back then, and I,
Speaker:it does make me wonder how they're feeling now, but I think there's two
Speaker:reasons why AI in this space is, um.
Speaker:The, the accounting is in the front runner.
Speaker:The first is because it comes with a discreet set of data, right?
Speaker:There's a right and a wrong.
Speaker:It's easy to see the right and the wrong, the, so that can
Speaker:help train the majority of it.
Speaker:And then it's just the nuances of personal preferences.
Speaker:So that's the first thing.
Speaker:But what most people wouldn't be aware of is the second thing,
Speaker:which is the bookkeepers probably touch more pieces of software.
Speaker:Than just about any other profession with maybe the exception and maybe not
Speaker:even the exception of it providers.
Speaker:And the reason I say that is that, you know, if you have a, a client load of
Speaker:20, 30, 40 bookkeeping clients, you'll have access to all sorts of things
Speaker:like PayPal and, um, totally different CRMs from one thing to the other.
Speaker:And that data usually has to be used for some purpose.
Speaker:Bookkeepers are actually in an ideal situation to take that forward.
Speaker:When I look at the CFO space, I think a lot of that is actually coaching
Speaker:in that hope, dreams, and aspirations and matching the hopes, dreams, and
Speaker:aspirations of the business owner to the data that's coming out of the business.
Speaker:So, so that you can move them towards that.
Speaker:That's still a little way off, but I think that to a certain extent it
Speaker:will be able to be codified or a set of questions can be asked that would
Speaker:get you in those, in those positions.
Speaker:To get to where you needed to know, please excuse my, I didn't
Speaker:turn off my calendar setting.
Speaker:Sorry, my ding dong, Mel.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Uh, um, what I was going to ask, um, Jeremy as well is, is how much
Speaker:do people need to be on top of it themselves versus needing to rely,
Speaker:you know, or having people like yourselves that are gonna come into a
Speaker:business and take care of it for them.
Speaker:Because I think that's the hardest part about AI at the moment.
Speaker:Lots of people have dabbled in, you know, chat.
Speaker:GPT has got the name, but there are versions there, all that
Speaker:have dabbled with it as far as particularly content is concerned.
Speaker:But actually making it work for your business and doing things,
Speaker:it's hard because you also need to be on top of some of these areas.
Speaker:So is it gonna take someone like yourself coming in and doing that, or
Speaker:do you think it's going to be things that people will just sign up for?
Speaker:Uh, I, I, I think there's a short, medium and long term answer to that.
Speaker:Um, and I'll deal with long term.
Speaker:First we dunno what it looks like in the long term.
Speaker:So who knows where it could go in the short term.
Speaker:There is, um.
Speaker:There somebody with the right skills needs to be training the ai and we
Speaker:view it that these AI tools will be another team member for us.
Speaker:Uh, and we'll spend the time just helping it to learn.
Speaker:And just like in, in the way that probably lots of us use chat GPT,
Speaker:now it gets better the more it learn, the more that you teach it.
Speaker:Um, so it'll be the same, uh, same approach there.
Speaker:Uh, for both bookkeeping and CFO, uh, services that we do.
Speaker:In the medium term, I think, uh, it is about the opportunities for
Speaker:accountants and bookkeepers to transform their role into much more
Speaker:of a people connection business.
Speaker:Uh, which for some accountants and bookkeepers will actually
Speaker:be against their natural energy.
Speaker:Uh, so maybe a challenge, but, uh.
Speaker:The, I go back to something that, that one of my mentors, um, highlighted many years
Speaker:ago, really forecasting what we're seeing now when he said, uh, that, uh, and we've
Speaker:both quoted this, uh, in different ways in on this call already, that the role of the
Speaker:accountant in the future is to connect to under someone who understands the numbers
Speaker:and to connect those numbers to the goals and aspirations of business owner.
Speaker:It becomes a, uh, a, um, a, a personal connection, a personal understanding
Speaker:of what that business owner wants to achieve, and then to partner with them in
Speaker:taking the data that's being automated, uh, to, to use that to make decisions.
Speaker:Uh, I think there'll be a, a blend of the technology and the human.
Speaker:That's what I call the medium term there, and that's, that's
Speaker:the opportunity to evolve.
Speaker:Yeah, I can, I can see there being two roles in businesses.
Speaker:Quite commonly there'll be the role of someone that is looking out for what
Speaker:is the latest AI and reviewing things because the, it's moving so quickly.
Speaker:So what you choose today, in six months time, you may need a different choice.
Speaker:And then there's the person that's going to be implementing and making sure that.
Speaker:Whatever is is happening in the business is doing that.
Speaker:But the, I think I wanna bring it back to you.
Speaker:Just to finish off this part of the discussion is just to bring
Speaker:it back to the systems that you talked about in the beginning.
Speaker:Of course, the important thing is, is you've gotta get the systems right.
Speaker:'cause if the systems are wrong, all the AI is gonna do is ex
Speaker:is exaggerate the problems.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:And, and you, you, in the previous question you were saying.
Speaker:Uh, like will we see business owners trying to do it themselves basically
Speaker:versus what would our role be?
Speaker:So there will be for sure business owners who identify AI tools and then
Speaker:just try to implement it themselves in the same way that there's business
Speaker:owners who now do their own bookkeeping.
Speaker:Some will do it well and some won't.
Speaker:Uh, so, uh, I think the outcome will be very similar.
Speaker:Um, the, and the opportunity is to, to.
Speaker:To just get it right with that little bit of help, extra help from someone who
Speaker:understands both the, the fundamental principles and the technology.
Speaker:I think there's a real reason why you wouldn't want to leave.
Speaker:Leave it for too long before you explore this as a, an opportunity
Speaker:though, and it comes back to the capital value of your business because.
Speaker:Within the next three to five years, there'll be those that
Speaker:have and those that have it.
Speaker:And if you're looking to explore maybe an exit in that time, and you are one of
Speaker:the ones that has, suddenly your capital value will be greatly appreciated in the
Speaker:marketplace compared to the capital value of a business that doesn't have that.
Speaker:So, uh, in an industry where you might get three times the revenue
Speaker:of your clients, you might get 10 times the revenue if you've got.
Speaker:AI overlay and, uh, integrated throughout your whole business.
Speaker:So, because people will look to come in and go, someone else
Speaker:has worked all this out for me.
Speaker:I'll jump on that.
Speaker:So if it's, if it's in your inclination to explore it, that would be what
Speaker:I would say is a really key, um, fundamental thing to reason why you
Speaker:might wanna do it sooner rather than later so that you're not one of the.
Speaker:Later adopters and that you're in that space, that you can actually get
Speaker:a really good market value for your business if you're looking to, to exit.
Speaker:And I think that there's a lot of different approaches to AI at what I
Speaker:would say is AI makes you ask a better question because if you're not getting
Speaker:the right answer, it's likely that it's because you've asked a question
Speaker:that was too broad without context.
Speaker:If you, if that's what's happening with your ai, it's probably
Speaker:also happening with your team.
Speaker:You're probably still not doing it there either.
Speaker:And what's even interesting is a comparison to that.
Speaker:So I've got, uh, an AI tool, uh, that I'm using that is, I guess an aggregator maybe
Speaker:is the right way to, to describe it, where you can actually choose from multiples.
Speaker:And which one you want to do.
Speaker:And what I've found as well is it's not only whether you've asked the
Speaker:right question, but whether you've asked the right AI the question.
Speaker:So sometimes it's, and it's a bit like people, right, where you could ask
Speaker:a question to two different people.
Speaker:I. Exactly the same way and get two completely different responses.
Speaker:And I think you, you have to understand that the ais are also wired
Speaker:differently for different reasons.
Speaker:And so sometimes, you know, I had one yesterday where I was asking
Speaker:a question and I asked it three or four different ways and I was still
Speaker:getting exactly the same response.
Speaker:I then changed it to a different, AI got exactly the response I wanted.
Speaker:It was just the wrong ai.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I think that's part of the learning curve.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:We spent a lot of time, I've spent.
Speaker:Nearly two years now, training a digital twin.
Speaker:Uh, so that, uh, it's been preloaded with all of our 10 year goals, 5, 3, 2,
Speaker:1, and an understanding of our complete organization chart and understanding
Speaker:of our complete, uh, every part of the business and what, what it needs to do
Speaker:and how it feeds into the next thing.
Speaker:And so by spending that time, it's got a very strong context
Speaker:of what I wanna get out.
Speaker:So if I need to go and get.
Speaker:Bio written, I can tell it what the bio is for, and then we go backwards and
Speaker:forwards and asks me a few questions to see what, what do I need next?
Speaker:Like why is it, why is it important?
Speaker:What is the context of that thing that you need the bio for?
Speaker:And it gives it to me well crafted for that.
Speaker:So it's actually speeding things up a lot now, but it was a matter
Speaker:of really, really training it.
Speaker:So like having five kids.
Speaker:If you want them to be able to tie their shoelaces, you have to just keep going.
Speaker:They have to keep I was gonna say, were you want, were you wondering
Speaker:where the AI was a few years ago when you had five kids at home?
Speaker:I was too busy to wonder.
Speaker:I'll just, um, wanted to ask you as well in the last pub, but a couple
Speaker:of of things I wanted to ask you about to, to finish things up, but.
Speaker:One is just in terms of recognizing who needs the services that you guys
Speaker:off offer, because it's, whereas accounting, bookkeeping, yeah.
Speaker:We kind of know we need, we need taxes done, we need our regular stuff.
Speaker:Being done from the bookkeeper kind of makes sense to most people,
Speaker:but often the term CFO has been something that has generally been
Speaker:associated with larger companies.
Speaker:So when you're in a smaller business, you.
Speaker:What do I need this kind of service for?
Speaker:So, so tell me who can benefit from services like yours?
Speaker:Uh, common things that we see are businesses that are managing by, uh,
Speaker:the cash, the cash balance in the bank.
Speaker:That that is their key, uh, key decision making metric or their key indicator
Speaker:at least, of how they're going.
Speaker:Uh, and, and then often the driver of action.
Speaker:The cash balance goes down.
Speaker:So they chase up their accounts receivable.
Speaker:If they have a cash receivable, the cash balance goes up.
Speaker:They spend some money on marketing or decide to, to get a new hire.
Speaker:So that's one thing.
Speaker:Uh, another thing is, uh, business owners who look at their profit loss, see a
Speaker:profit at the bottom of the page and don't see that in the bank account and wonder
Speaker:why there's a difference and just never understand why there's a difference.
Speaker:'cause no one's ever told it.
Speaker:The third one is, uh, we often hear business owners talk about they
Speaker:feel like they're flying blind.
Speaker:They just don't have the data that they know they need and should have
Speaker:to be making the right decisions.
Speaker:So, uh, a lot of what we do is actually starts with education and uh, and one
Speaker:of the things that really lights us up is to have a session with a business
Speaker:owner where we explain those things the.
Speaker:The, the how to pull and push the levers of cash flow to really make a difference
Speaker:and how to understand why is there a difference between profit and cash flow.
Speaker:When we have a business owner that says, I've been in business for 10
Speaker:years, nobody's ever told me that.
Speaker:Now I finally get it.
Speaker:That's one of the things that we really love to do.
Speaker:Which, um, it's gonna jump me to the last question I'm gonna ask.
Speaker:I'm gonna come back to it 'cause it needs to be the last question of you.
Speaker:We asked about a, a heart moment, but I did just want to, uh, bring in one
Speaker:other, one other topic here that's dear to all of our hearts is, uh, the idea
Speaker:of being a business, business for good.
Speaker:And I've interviewed Paul Dunn, who we know and love, uh, on the program in
Speaker:the past, but I wanted to talk to you about how that's made a difference for
Speaker:you just because of how you feel about it, the, the difference that it makes
Speaker:in the way you go about things, because it's such a. It's easy to talk about the
Speaker:idea of a business for good, but actually doing something and demonstrating you're
Speaker:doing it and bringing that to people.
Speaker:It's such a buzz, isn't it?
Speaker:Yeah, there's it.
Speaker:It's so powerful that it should be through everything that you do, and I think the
Speaker:reason, the reason why I was talking about how many small businesses there are on
Speaker:the face of the earth speaks to our why.
Speaker:It's because half of those businesses will employ other families as well as
Speaker:that, you know, the business owner has a family, but they'll, half of those
Speaker:will employ other people as well.
Speaker:And when you unpack the statistics of that one in five of those bus,
Speaker:so that 60% of them in the next five years will go out of business, which
Speaker:is a terrible statistic, right?
Speaker:It's, that's, that's about 2 billion people.
Speaker:Impacted by small businesses, small, medium, and micro businesses closing in
Speaker:the next five years, 2 billion people.
Speaker:And so when you've put that in the context of someone's family
Speaker:livelihood, it, it's scary, right?
Speaker:It's scary for those families that they don't know how they're gonna
Speaker:feed their kids and sometimes it is spouses working together and that
Speaker:that's everything they own gone.
Speaker:And one of the top five reasons is poor cash flow.
Speaker:It's stupid 'cause it's something we can do something about.
Speaker:And so I find it really powerful to have that conversation with people, to
Speaker:say that this is why we do what we do.
Speaker:We, we are passionate about fixing this problem and we're passionate about
Speaker:fixing it for the other people who are out there that the heroes in our
Speaker:community there, um, they might be a tradie, but they take on an apprentice.
Speaker:That's someone's kid.
Speaker:That's someone's kid who needs a job.
Speaker:They, they're the, uh, allied health professionals that
Speaker:get people able to work.
Speaker:Again.
Speaker:They're the, uh, it might be some, uh, it might be a guy in marketing, but he,
Speaker:he's also coaching the local footy team.
Speaker:And we can have this amazing impact if we just stop and think about
Speaker:who the, who's are in our life.
Speaker:Who are the people that are our customers, and how can we better influence them?
Speaker:Then I like to think too, I'm a global citizen first, so this
Speaker:isn't just happening in my country.
Speaker:This is happening in every country around the world that there's these
Speaker:businesses going out of, out of business, and it's, it's really sad.
Speaker:And so it's something that I really wanted to do something about.
Speaker:So we aligned with, um, B one G one Business for Good, and we, it
Speaker:was actually deliberately the very, very first expense of this business.
Speaker:Because that was how important it was for us.
Speaker:And we have had our children on different study tours with B one G one.
Speaker:We've taken them over to, um, Cambodia.
Speaker:One of our children actually decided she wanted to go to one in Kenya by
Speaker:herself, and she went and did that so she could meet other business
Speaker:owners with this philanthropic mind frame that it wasn't just all about
Speaker:them and how much they could get.
Speaker:Actually, if you spend some time giving, you actually
Speaker:receive so much more yourself.
Speaker:And, uh, it, it's just a really lovely expression of who we are.
Speaker:And it's probably what, it's just as much an expression of our
Speaker:business as it is us personally.
Speaker:I love that it's such a, such a great way to, uh, encapsulate the,
Speaker:the importance of all of that.
Speaker:And, uh, you know, I feel the same way as well, and it's, and.
Speaker:B one, G one is such an important part of my business, but of many of
Speaker:the businesses, I guess, that you and I both know and, uh, we'll include
Speaker:in the show notes as we always do, we link to B one G one, so people
Speaker:want to know a little bit more.
Speaker:They can, they can check that out.
Speaker:But just before we wrap up, the final question that I have.
Speaker:And I'd be interested to know whether it's different for both
Speaker:of you or whether it's the same.
Speaker:So I'll ask you Jeremy first, 'cause you started alluding to it, what is the
Speaker:at heart moment that businesses have when they start working with you that
Speaker:you wish more people will realize they were going to have and so they would
Speaker:come flocking to you in the future?
Speaker:Uh, it's, um, so I, I gave that example before of.
Speaker:Somebody who has been in business going through those sort of struggles
Speaker:that I described, and they've been on a session with us where they actually
Speaker:get it and they don't feel dumb as a business owner, uh, they don't feel
Speaker:dumb for not understanding why the cash in the bank is not there when it
Speaker:shows they're making a profit and they feel empowered because they have the.
Speaker:The understanding of how to make that different going forward.
Speaker:It's, um, it's, there's moments almost every day when a business
Speaker:owner has been holding onto a problem that they've got for a long time.
Speaker:And it might be that their bookkeeping is behind and there are a couple of basses
Speaker:behind, or that they just don't get how to get the information outta the system.
Speaker:When they hand that over and have someone working with them to
Speaker:solve that problem and to get that understanding, they feel like the
Speaker:weight is lifted off their shoulders.
Speaker:And they actually say that to us, uh, which is, is very rewarding to, to hear.
Speaker:Uh, and, uh, and then at a higher level, as a business grows and expands,
Speaker:it's the ahas they have around, um.
Speaker:How they work together with their team.
Speaker:Uh, and uh, 'cause some of what we do is, is almost like a, a
Speaker:mentoring role for the finance team, but for the broader team as well.
Speaker:And, uh, and just helping them to understand, well, if I choose
Speaker:that example, how the finance team works with the rest of the team.
Speaker:Sometimes they're a bit of a silo, but, uh, through some, some mentoring and some
Speaker:of the strategies that, that we have.
Speaker:They actually feel a part of the bigger team and feel
Speaker:like they can make an impact.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:So what about you, Deb?
Speaker:Any difference?
Speaker:Uh, slightly Yes.
Speaker:I, but I love that too.
Speaker:I think that, that it's very true.
Speaker:I think for me it's the calm.
Speaker:So by that I mean sometimes business owners are like those circus acrobats
Speaker:that have the sticks and the plates up on top, and they, they're so busy spinning
Speaker:every stick because they've been told.
Speaker:You've gotta go on Instagram, you've gotta have your Facebook
Speaker:leads, you've gotta have Google ads.
Speaker:Where's your Google This search rankings?
Speaker:Where's, um, where's the customers?
Speaker:You've gotta have a good customer journey.
Speaker:You've gotta have, uh, all of your service and your delivery, and, and
Speaker:they're trying to make the money go round.
Speaker:All these different things.
Speaker:All these things.
Speaker:And it's frantic, it feels frantic even as I say it, but when you can actually
Speaker:hone them in on the three things they need to do next and to focus down.
Speaker:To that, it just takes, you know, suddenly, it just takes the crazy out.
Speaker:And I, I think that's the nicest aha moment.
Speaker:And when they start to get the pattern of that, and you see the results
Speaker:from the pattern of that, and we've had some clients where they, they
Speaker:were turning over maybe 20,000 in a month, and they actually accelerated
Speaker:up to, I think, 2 million a month.
Speaker:In that period of time, they, they just learnt the pattern and it's so
Speaker:satisfying and it's really satisfying to, we graduate clients by graduating.
Speaker:I mean, there's a point where they become too big for us and it's amazing.
Speaker:That just lights me up.
Speaker:To graduated client means that they've accelerated through all
Speaker:the services that we can offer.
Speaker:We've helped them train their new.
Speaker:Finance team, they have a new CFO in in store.
Speaker:Everything's set up for them to succeed.
Speaker:The CFO knows how to communicate to the business owner in a way that the business
Speaker:owner can understand, or that's a really powerful thing to actually bring about,
Speaker:and it starts at the smallest place, which is just understanding the numbers.
Speaker:So powerful, so good.
Speaker:I love all of that.
Speaker:We could talk for hours.
Speaker:We've already talked for hours before in the past, and it's been an absolute
Speaker:joy to talk to both of you on Biz Bytes.
Speaker:Thank you so much for being part of the program.
Speaker:Thank you Anthony and Blake.
Speaker:Great to meet with you.
Speaker:Of course we will include all the details, how to get in touch with you both.
Speaker:Uh, fire the show notes so people pay attention to that.
Speaker:There are lots of great things in there and for everyone listening in, don't
Speaker:forget to subscribe and, uh, get ready for the next episode of the Bites.
Speaker:Hey, thanks for listening to Biz Bytes.
Speaker:We hope you enjoyed the program.
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Speaker:where we will deliver a podcast for you and expose your brilliance.
Speaker:To the world.
Speaker:Contact us today for more information, details in the show notes.
Speaker:We look forward to your company next time on Biz Bytes.
