Episode 101

Scaling Success: Unlocking Your Business Potential | Biz Bites with Angela Sedran

Join us as we dive deep into the world of entrepreneurship with business expert Angela Sedran.

In this episode, we explore the challenges and triumphs of scaling a business, from identifying your strengths to delegating effectively.

Discover how to implement systems, foster accountability, and reduce overwhelm.

We'll also discuss the impact of AI, the importance of values-driven leadership, and the art of strategic focus. Tune in to learn how to take your business to the next level.

Biz Bites is a podcast channel focused on thought leaders in the professional services space. 

Listen to the full episode now and subscribe to our channel to learn more from different thought leaders.

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Connect with Angela on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angelasedran/ 

Check out her website - www.angelasedran.com 

Get in touch with Angela and check out special offers she has in store for you.


_________________________________________________________________________


Subscribe to the Anthony Perl hosts channel and the Biz Bites playlist for more inspiring interviews and transformative insights.


Connect with me on LinkedIn:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/adperl/ 

https://www.commtogether.com.au/


Learn more: https://www.commtogether.com.au/biz-bites/ 


Interested in having your own podcast? You can even have Anthony as the anchor of your very show.  Check out https://podcastsdoneforyou.com.au or the podcast on this channel ‪@anthonyperl_hosts‬  


#entrepreneurship #businessleaders #professionalservices #podcastshow #podcasting #scalebusiness


Transcript
Anthony Perl:

Well, hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Biz

Anthony Perl:

Bytes and I have with me today Angela Sedron and we got to know each other.

Anthony Perl:

Well, we'll get into that as we go into the podcast, but we got to know each

Anthony Perl:

other at a function were both at and we kind of hit it off straight from

Anthony Perl:

the beginning and I thought she's going to be a great guest on the program.

Anthony Perl:

So welcome to the program and I'd love you to introduce yourself to the audience.

Angela Sedran:

Hey, Sean.

Angela Sedran:

Well, hello, everyone.

Angela Sedran:

My name is Angela Cedron.

Angela Sedran:

I help scaling businesses to actually implement the right systems and

Angela Sedran:

this right leadership behaviors to drive accountability down, which

Angela Sedran:

basically means I help them lift their capabilities so that they can grow

Anthony Perl:

they

Angela Sedran:

without the overwhelm.

Angela Sedran:

The Headaches and the overwork

Anthony Perl:

the overwork.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

And I think that is a big thing, isn't it?

Anthony Perl:

That, um, whole idea of the, the headaches and the overwhelm and the

Anthony Perl:

overwork and all of these things.

Anthony Perl:

It's such a big factor in business these days, isn't it?

Angela Sedran:

it really is, particularly with a lot of the clients that I

Angela Sedran:

work with because they're great at the technical skills or the products

Angela Sedran:

that they're actually building.

Angela Sedran:

It's the area of expertise.

Angela Sedran:

It's where the superpower lies.

Angela Sedran:

They're not necessarily experts in

Anthony Perl:

really.

Angela Sedran:

So there's, there's also a very big

Angela Sedran:

difference in starting a business.

Anthony Perl:

a

Angela Sedran:

And taking a business to the next level,

Anthony Perl:

the

Angela Sedran:

because what happens is that they have to start hiring more staff.

Anthony Perl:

more

Angela Sedran:

And then a very typical comment I hear is, Oh my goodness, I never

Angela Sedran:

thought I'd end up running a kindergarten that has a business attached to it.

Anthony Perl:

attached to it.

Anthony Perl:

Yes.

Anthony Perl:

It it, it is amazing, isn't it?

Anthony Perl:

Because.

Anthony Perl:

Things change, don't they?

Anthony Perl:

The, the, and I think they're moving at an even faster pace these days

Anthony Perl:

than they have been in the past.

Anthony Perl:

But the truth is, is what a business starts out as and where it ends up

Anthony Perl:

as can be two completely different things and something that was not

Anthony Perl:

predicted at the time of opening it.

Angela Sedran:

I think a lot of business owners got their business because they

Angela Sedran:

are, they want something that gives them more time or freedom or money.

Angela Sedran:

And in the end, it actually gives them none of those things.

Angela Sedran:

It becomes, it can become a bit of a beast

Anthony Perl:

bit of a

Angela Sedran:

that ends up creating tremendous burnout.

Angela Sedran:

And.

Anthony Perl:

And

Angela Sedran:

not why they started the business.

Angela Sedran:

It's like we're not in Kansas anymore.

Angela Sedran:

This is not what I signed up for.

Anthony Perl:

signed up

Angela Sedran:

So it's really also about working with those leaders to work out

Angela Sedran:

what it is they want, because some of them have actually say to me, look,

Anthony Perl:

say to

Angela Sedran:

I'm quite happy winding this business back down.

Anthony Perl:

down

Angela Sedran:

or two people and having a much better lifestyle

Anthony Perl:

lifestyle.

Angela Sedran:

might say to me,

Anthony Perl:

say to me,

Angela Sedran:

I don't want to manage people.

Angela Sedran:

I'm passionate about what I do.

Angela Sedran:

I love my service.

Angela Sedran:

I love my product,

Anthony Perl:

my

Angela Sedran:

but let's get this business to the point where I can

Angela Sedran:

bring someone else in to manage it so that I can then become the

Angela Sedran:

creative director or sit on the board

Anthony Perl:

on the

Angela Sedran:

half the time and then spend the other time pursuing

Angela Sedran:

what I love or sitting on the beach.

Anthony Perl:

on the beach.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, it is a big difference, isn't it?

Anthony Perl:

Because I find it fascinating when you, when you start digging into what, why

Anthony Perl:

people establish the business in the

Angela Sedran:

Mm.

Anthony Perl:

how many of them are there really with their eyes wide open?

Anthony Perl:

Because I, I look back sometimes and.

Anthony Perl:

People that I've met over the years and I think there's this enthusiasm

Anthony Perl:

for starting a business because it's the idea of starting a business

Anthony Perl:

without actually really necessarily understanding what the implications

Anthony Perl:

of that are and where it might go.

Anthony Perl:

So the enthusiasm is there for the concept of a business, but the reality

Anthony Perl:

can be so completely different.

Angela Sedran:

It really can be.

Angela Sedran:

Um, there's a whole world of things people don't realize they have

Angela Sedran:

to deal with and that they have to do when they start a business.

Anthony Perl:

start a

Angela Sedran:

And I've often had a conversation with a business

Angela Sedran:

owner where he's saying to me,

Anthony Perl:

saying

Angela Sedran:

not in love with my business anymore.

Angela Sedran:

I actually can't stand it.

Anthony Perl:

can't stand it.

Angela Sedran:

So part of what I do is, um,

Anthony Perl:

I do is

Angela Sedran:

in and really help them assess where their business is at,

Anthony Perl:

business

Angela Sedran:

start engaging this stuff and really start pushing

Anthony Perl:

start

Angela Sedran:

down to this stuff so that they are doing

Angela Sedran:

the tough stuff and the daily

Anthony Perl:

and the

Angela Sedran:

grunt and the down and what I call the down in the weeds stuff

Angela Sedran:

so that you can lift yourself out of the business to really start working

Angela Sedran:

on the business again because that is

Anthony Perl:

that

Angela Sedran:

business owners get to the point where they're doing everything.

Anthony Perl:

everything

Angela Sedran:

the business and doing stuff, daily stuff they don't want to do.

Anthony Perl:

want to do.

Angela Sedran:

end up trying to do all the sales and marketing

Angela Sedran:

and the strategy stuff as well.

Anthony Perl:

as

Angela Sedran:

Um, and that's not what they want to do.

Angela Sedran:

It's, it's too much.

Anthony Perl:

too much.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, it's, and I think it's that one of the hard parts about being in business

Anthony Perl:

is there's that inclination to Feel as though you need to do everything.

Anthony Perl:

And I think that's a, it's a big danger that happens in society these

Anthony Perl:

days because you've got a powerful tool in your pocket with your phone.

Anthony Perl:

For starters, so many apps and so many bits and pieces that you almost feel like

Anthony Perl:

you should be doing it yourself rather than trying to work out what your core

Anthony Perl:

thing is that you're great at and that is really going to help you move forward.

Angela Sedran:

Well, that's a really good point.

Angela Sedran:

So work out what your superpower is and focus on that.

Angela Sedran:

And look, when you start a business and you're on a shoestring budget, yes, then

Angela Sedran:

you have to do a little bit of everything.

Anthony Perl:

everything.

Angela Sedran:

soon as you can start finding ways to stop doing

Angela Sedran:

the stuff that you're not enjoying, that's not bringing you joy.

Anthony Perl:

you joy.

Angela Sedran:

But the other thing I'm seeing, and interestingly, I was having

Angela Sedran:

a conversation with the CEO of one of the private equity firms recently,

Anthony Perl:

firms recently.

Angela Sedran:

and he said to me when people come to him with

Angela Sedran:

their business and he assesses it,

Anthony Perl:

it,

Angela Sedran:

most of the time he finds they are not focused.

Anthony Perl:

focused.

Angela Sedran:

So a lot of business owners.

Anthony Perl:

business

Angela Sedran:

from the bright, shiny object syndrome

Anthony Perl:

syndrome

Angela Sedran:

lack of focus.

Angela Sedran:

We, we overestimate what we can achieve in the short run and underestimate what

Angela Sedran:

we can achieve in the, in the long run.

Anthony Perl:

the long

Angela Sedran:

So

Anthony Perl:

So

Angela Sedran:

only a question of farming out things that you

Angela Sedran:

don't enjoy as soon as you can.

Angela Sedran:

So you can stick to the stuff you're good at.

Anthony Perl:

you're

Angela Sedran:

It's also about strategically deciding, not

Angela Sedran:

just what you're going to do, but what you're not going to do

Angela Sedran:

because strategy comes down to.

Anthony Perl:

to,

Angela Sedran:

most of the time, the most important part

Angela Sedran:

of it is what you say no to.

Anthony Perl:

say no to.

Angela Sedran:

And there's always this temptation to do more.

Anthony Perl:

a hundred percent, isn't it?

Anthony Perl:

It's, it's so easy to be led off course.

Anthony Perl:

I mean, I think we've all had those days where you start off and

Anthony Perl:

you've got a list of might be one.

Anthony Perl:

It might be three things that you want to get done and you get to

Anthony Perl:

the end of it and you realize you didn't do any of those things.

Anthony Perl:

And you think, how did I end up doing all of those things?

Anthony Perl:

Uh, where did that day disappear to?

Angela Sedran:

Yeah.

Angela Sedran:

Typically driving home Friday night, thinking, Oh, it's been such a busy

Angela Sedran:

week, but I've achieved nothing.

Anthony Perl:

I've achieved nothing.

Angela Sedran:

Very common.

Anthony Perl:

it's, and I imagine that, uh, you know, there's, there's

Anthony Perl:

that realization that people have, but I'm, I'm, I'm wondering as well,

Anthony Perl:

what drives them to you in the first place, because I often think that, you

Anthony Perl:

know, it's great if people have this realization and go, you know, Um, either

Anthony Perl:

I'm not enjoying my business or, um, you know, I'm time poor, overwhelmed

Anthony Perl:

as we talked about at the beginning.

Anthony Perl:

it need to be that or is there a point before that where people have more of

Anthony Perl:

a realization say they need some help?

Angela Sedran:

Well, Tony Robbins always says that people only

Angela Sedran:

change when the pain of staying is greater than the pain of changing.

Anthony Perl:

of changing.

Angela Sedran:

number one, they have to be in a significant amount

Angela Sedran:

of discomfort to make a change.

Anthony Perl:

a change.

Angela Sedran:

other problem I find is that

Anthony Perl:

is that

Angela Sedran:

a lot of business owners don't know what they don't know.

Anthony Perl:

they don't know,

Angela Sedran:

Particularly if they don't have any business background.

Angela Sedran:

So they kind of

Anthony Perl:

they

Angela Sedran:

make a few plans, put a few band aids on things, and then they just

Angela Sedran:

accept that this is the way it should be.

Anthony Perl:

it

Angela Sedran:

I really hate it.

Angela Sedran:

It's a drudge, but hey, all business owners have to go through this.

Anthony Perl:

through this.

Angela Sedran:

And this is actually a mistake.

Angela Sedran:

The business owners who come to me are the ones who have actually

Anthony Perl:

actually

Angela Sedran:

homework and

Anthony Perl:

and

Angela Sedran:

are even just open to having a conversation with me and saying,

Anthony Perl:

and

Angela Sedran:

I think there's a different way to do this.

Angela Sedran:

Can, can we have a chat?

Anthony Perl:

we have a chat?

Angela Sedran:

It's the ones who think, no, I'm all good.

Angela Sedran:

I don't need that.

Angela Sedran:

I've, I've got it all covered.

Anthony Perl:

covered.

Angela Sedran:

ones who suffer the longest.

Anthony Perl:

the longest,

Angela Sedran:

But what I would suggest is that you don't wait until you're literally

Angela Sedran:

overwhelmed, overworked, and over it.

Anthony Perl:

over it.

Angela Sedran:

you realize that in order to take your business to the next

Angela Sedran:

level, to really scale it properly,

Anthony Perl:

properly,

Angela Sedran:

you here is not going to get you there.

Anthony Perl:

going to get you there.

Angela Sedran:

Most businesses where the entrepreneur has grown the business,

Angela Sedran:

unless they have changed something,

Anthony Perl:

something,

Angela Sedran:

has gone out of business.

Angela Sedran:

And I can think of

Anthony Perl:

And I

Angela Sedran:

Sophia Amoruso is a very good example with Nasty Gal.

Angela Sedran:

Um, that business got to the point where it imploded on itself.

Anthony Perl:

on

Angela Sedran:

So logically, If you don't change the way you're managing

Angela Sedran:

your business, like getting in a racing car, the thing takes off, it

Angela Sedran:

accelerates, everything's beautiful.

Anthony Perl:

beautiful,

Angela Sedran:

know that if you

Anthony Perl:

know that

Angela Sedran:

don't change gears at a certain point, that car is going to

Angela Sedran:

burn out and your business is the same.

Anthony Perl:

is the

Angela Sedran:

So What I'm saying is understand that that is going to happen.

Angela Sedran:

It's a natural progression in business.

Angela Sedran:

Don't wait until you're at your wit's end.

Anthony Perl:

wits

Angela Sedran:

And unfortunately, a lot of business owners do come to me with that.

Angela Sedran:

So part of what I also talk about

Anthony Perl:

talk

Angela Sedran:

is really starting to educate them and say that

Anthony Perl:

say

Angela Sedran:

business starts growing, as you bring in more staff members, your

Angela Sedran:

problems are going to grow exponentially.

Anthony Perl:

grow

Angela Sedran:

it's easier to put a system in place at the beginning

Anthony Perl:

the

Angela Sedran:

and make sure problems don't occur than to

Angela Sedran:

unwind things and fix problems.

Anthony Perl:

fix problems.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

And that whole idea of putting systems in place is in of itself an overwhelming

Anthony Perl:

task for many people, because there's, there can be a lot, it's only when

Anthony Perl:

you start diving into it, isn't it?

Anthony Perl:

Any given business that you realize how many systems there actually are

Anthony Perl:

for doing so many different tasks.

Angela Sedran:

Yeah, very true.

Angela Sedran:

Well, it's even something as simple as a process to create a landing page.

Angela Sedran:

You've got to go through a system.

Anthony Perl:

a system.

Angela Sedran:

but one of the things actually that I can say, I gave a speech.

Angela Sedran:

Each last week on AI, because

Anthony Perl:

because

Angela Sedran:

overall I help businesses build their

Angela Sedran:

capability and help leaders kill

Anthony Perl:

leaders

Angela Sedran:

capability as well.

Angela Sedran:

And AI is part of that.

Anthony Perl:

part of that.

Angela Sedran:

You can actually use AI to start documenting some

Angela Sedran:

of your more mundane systems.

Angela Sedran:

Like how do I create this?

Angela Sedran:

How do we go through the process of

Anthony Perl:

process

Angela Sedran:

on a social media page?

Angela Sedran:

Those sorts of things are simpler to create, but there's so many of them,

Anthony Perl:

of

Angela Sedran:

but once you have them in place.

Anthony Perl:

in place,

Angela Sedran:

sounds counterintuitive.

Angela Sedran:

Systems will set you free

Anthony Perl:

you

Angela Sedran:

because it means that you've taken them out of your brain and

Angela Sedran:

put them on paper and it's much easier

Anthony Perl:

easier

Angela Sedran:

train someone else to do them.

Anthony Perl:

to do them.

Angela Sedran:

The other thing about a business is that, or a system rather.

Angela Sedran:

So the system I use is really to come in and implement what they call a balanced

Anthony Perl:

they

Angela Sedran:

scorecard.

Anthony Perl:

scorecard.

Angela Sedran:

So with the leadership team, we work for a day and a half

Angela Sedran:

together in a workshop removed from the normal day to day work.

Anthony Perl:

to day

Angela Sedran:

And we actually create a plan and a page for that business.

Anthony Perl:

for that business.

Angela Sedran:

Now that in itself is.

Anthony Perl:

in

Angela Sedran:

It's terrific,

Anthony Perl:

terrific,

Angela Sedran:

piece of paper and it's work done in that

Angela Sedran:

room unless the team take it

Anthony Perl:

take

Angela Sedran:

and implement a system and a rhythm and a

Angela Sedran:

cadence where they're actually

Anthony Perl:

where they're

Angela Sedran:

tracking those measures every month

Anthony Perl:

month.

Angela Sedran:

reporting on them, but not just saying this

Angela Sedran:

is what happened, actually saying

Anthony Perl:

saying

Angela Sedran:

what happened, but this is what it means.

Anthony Perl:

it needs.

Angela Sedran:

What is the so what of those results to the business?

Angela Sedran:

Is it good?

Angela Sedran:

Is it bad?

Angela Sedran:

Do I do more of something?

Angela Sedran:

Do we do less of something?

Anthony Perl:

of

Angela Sedran:

Who's going to do it?

Angela Sedran:

And when are we going to do it by?

Anthony Perl:

to do it

Angela Sedran:

So that at the end of every month, the business

Angela Sedran:

starts getting into that habit

Anthony Perl:

that habit

Angela Sedran:

really assessing and adjusting the sales.

Anthony Perl:

the

Angela Sedran:

That's when

Anthony Perl:

That's

Angela Sedran:

no longer have to worry about that stuff because

Angela Sedran:

it happens automatically.

Anthony Perl:

automatically.

Angela Sedran:

And this is where

Anthony Perl:

And this

Angela Sedran:

once you can get a system in place,

Anthony Perl:

in

Angela Sedran:

it starts automating things.

Anthony Perl:

things.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the, that's the key, uh, is to, you need buy in

Anthony Perl:

from people and you need that to, to happen, but I'm, I'm, I'm intrigued as

Anthony Perl:

well as your approach to the developing the systems in the first place, because

Anthony Perl:

actually taking that information out from people and putting into something

Anthony Perl:

that is constructive, um, can be a difficult exercise within itself.

Anthony Perl:

Look,

Angela Sedran:

that anybody has to deal with in a business.

Anthony Perl:

in the business.

Angela Sedran:

Um,

Anthony Perl:

Um,

Angela Sedran:

one, getting the information out of them and number two,

Angela Sedran:

also making sure that they start using it properly is, is the other real,

Angela Sedran:

um, challenge that a lot of business

Anthony Perl:

a

Angela Sedran:

owners face.

Anthony Perl:

owners face.

Angela Sedran:

So for me, engagement is super, super important

Anthony Perl:

important.

Angela Sedran:

you are.

Anthony Perl:

you

Angela Sedran:

someone over the head with a stick

Anthony Perl:

with a

Angela Sedran:

to get them to do something.

Anthony Perl:

something,

Angela Sedran:

much harder than when you have a carrot.

Angela Sedran:

When someone wants to be there

Anthony Perl:

to be

Angela Sedran:

and they feel engaged and they feel like they

Angela Sedran:

belong to the business's vision,

Anthony Perl:

vision,

Angela Sedran:

going to start giving you discretionary efforts.

Anthony Perl:

effort.

Angela Sedran:

And this is where they

Anthony Perl:

is

Angela Sedran:

are going to be much more willing to come on that journey

Angela Sedran:

and start using the processes.

Angela Sedran:

Because if you tell them they have to use a process, It's like

Angela Sedran:

nobody likes to be told what to do,

Anthony Perl:

what to

Angela Sedran:

but when you can start explaining to them,

Anthony Perl:

explaining

Angela Sedran:

is why we need it

Anthony Perl:

we need

Angela Sedran:

and this is how we're going to use it because it

Angela Sedran:

belongs to this greater purpose of our business, whatever that may be,

Anthony Perl:

may

Angela Sedran:

this is where you're going to start finding that your

Angela Sedran:

staff actually want to be there and they actually want to do the work.

Anthony Perl:

the work.

Angela Sedran:

Does that answer your question?

Anthony Perl:

answer your question?

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, absolutely.

Anthony Perl:

And I, and I think that, that it's, it's very interesting.

Anthony Perl:

I'm going to cross reference a that I've done with, um, a client of mine.

Anthony Perl:

And he was talking about the fact that there's some surveys done recently in his

Anthony Perl:

particular industry where everybody, all, everybody completely admitted that they've

Anthony Perl:

never worked to capacity because they were too scared to work to capacity because

Anthony Perl:

then people would expect that that's what they would be able to do all the time.

Angela Sedran:

Interesting.

Anthony Perl:

It's an interesting mindset that people have because you can't operate

Anthony Perl:

at 100 percent capacity as a human being.

Anthony Perl:

all the

Angela Sedran:

No,

Anthony Perl:

just not possible.

Anthony Perl:

And so, you know, you need to have some leeway in there and you need to

Anthony Perl:

have some ability to up the slack.

Anthony Perl:

But engaging people, your team is so difficult.

Anthony Perl:

And we go back to the beginning of where we're discussing the idea that,

Anthony Perl:

you know, you start this business and suddenly you're hiring people.

Anthony Perl:

And just because you're good at your job doesn't mean that

Anthony Perl:

you're good at managing a team.

Anthony Perl:

And, and there's an obligation that you feel as though, well, it's my business.

Anthony Perl:

I should be good at this.

Anthony Perl:

And sometimes it's square peg in a round hole, really, when you, when

Anthony Perl:

you're doing that, because your, your genius or superpower may be in

Anthony Perl:

something that doesn't, um, doesn't really lend itself to that kind of

Anthony Perl:

level of leadership and engagement.

Anthony Perl:

And that's, that's difficult for a lot of business owners, isn't it?

Angela Sedran:

look, it really is.

Angela Sedran:

And it's not just business owners.

Angela Sedran:

I've recently worked with, um, quite a senior level executive

Angela Sedran:

in a company where she's really been slated to be the next CEO,

Anthony Perl:

CEO,

Angela Sedran:

and

Anthony Perl:

and

Angela Sedran:

he brought me on board to help her learn to manage people.

Anthony Perl:

people.

Anthony Perl:

But

Angela Sedran:

on the journey with me is she doesn't like managing people.

Anthony Perl:

people.

Angela Sedran:

not her thing.

Anthony Perl:

her

Angela Sedran:

So what we realized from that journey was that

Anthony Perl:

was

Angela Sedran:

CEO wasn't the right role for her.

Anthony Perl:

role for

Angela Sedran:

She's much more analytical in terms of her thinking.

Anthony Perl:

her thinking.

Angela Sedran:

it's not her superpower.

Anthony Perl:

not her

Angela Sedran:

And honestly, she scares her staff.

Anthony Perl:

her staff.

Angela Sedran:

You can change that.

Angela Sedran:

You can work on it.

Angela Sedran:

It is an acquired skill, but it's not one that she wanted because

Angela Sedran:

it's not one that would give her

Anthony Perl:

give

Angela Sedran:

a sense of fulfillment.

Angela Sedran:

And for her, it really would be hard work to actually have to be that different.

Angela Sedran:

She's extremely introverted.

Angela Sedran:

She's introverted.

Angela Sedran:

So you are very right.

Angela Sedran:

It's not necessarily a skill of many of many business owners.

Angela Sedran:

Um, I think the real question is do they want it?

Angela Sedran:

If it's not a skill,

Anthony Perl:

a

Angela Sedran:

then is it a skill that they want to develop?

Anthony Perl:

they

Angela Sedran:

Otherwise, they're actually better off bringing what EOS

Angela Sedran:

calls an integrator into the business.

Anthony Perl:

the

Angela Sedran:

So the business owner remains the visionary, remains the

Angela Sedran:

person who works on the strategy.

Angela Sedran:

Maybe they go out and do business development,

Anthony Perl:

development.

Angela Sedran:

somebody underneath them who actually.

Anthony Perl:

who actually

Angela Sedran:

it all happen and manages the people.

Angela Sedran:

Also like a chief of staff.

Angela Sedran:

Think of it that way.

Anthony Perl:

of it that

Angela Sedran:

And I do do that for some of my clients as well.

Anthony Perl:

as

Angela Sedran:

But I also have a very different philosophy in

Angela Sedran:

terms of leading and managing.

Angela Sedran:

So

Anthony Perl:

managing.

Angela Sedran:

grew up and maybe you did too in an era where you came to work at

Angela Sedran:

nine o'clock and you left at five o'clock.

Anthony Perl:

o'clock.

Angela Sedran:

or they'd make you work till seven or eight.

Angela Sedran:

But the point is you had to be there at nine o'clock, not 905.

Angela Sedran:

Or even nine or two, nine o'clock.

Angela Sedran:

And you had to sit at your desk between nine and five.

Anthony Perl:

and

Angela Sedran:

I actually

Anthony Perl:

I

Angela Sedran:

can't personally work that way.

Angela Sedran:

I can't sit still long enough

Anthony Perl:

enough.

Angela Sedran:

more creative.

Angela Sedran:

So my philosophy with my staff, and I will always say this to them,

Angela Sedran:

is I don't, you're not children,

Anthony Perl:

not children.

Angela Sedran:

know, you've got to achieve this job.

Angela Sedran:

This is what I'm paying you to do.

Angela Sedran:

I don't care how you achieve it.

Anthony Perl:

you

Angela Sedran:

If you've got to go and pick the kids up from school

Anthony Perl:

from

Angela Sedran:

or you want to do it

Anthony Perl:

want to do

Angela Sedran:

at a certain other time or in a different way, that's fine.

Anthony Perl:

that's

Angela Sedran:

not here to babysit you.

Anthony Perl:

you.

Angela Sedran:

I also think you're an adult.

Angela Sedran:

I'm going to treat you like an adult, but I am going to hold you accountable.

Anthony Perl:

accountable.

Anthony Perl:

For

Angela Sedran:

So what I'm saying to you is I need you to

Angela Sedran:

be the best that you can be.

Anthony Perl:

you

Angela Sedran:

And I will do everything in my power to help

Angela Sedran:

you be the best that you can be.

Anthony Perl:

can

Angela Sedran:

But I'm also not a psychic mind reader.

Anthony Perl:

mind

Angela Sedran:

So if you know that these are the goals and the measures

Angela Sedran:

that you've agreed to in the business,

Anthony Perl:

the

Angela Sedran:

know that my door is open to you.

Anthony Perl:

to

Angela Sedran:

And if you need my help, I'm here for you, but.

Anthony Perl:

you, but

Angela Sedran:

have to achieve them.

Anthony Perl:

achieve them.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

It's, and I, I'm intrigued by all of that because a lot of that comes down

Anthony Perl:

to shifting the mindset of whoever's the leader as, you know, it could be

Anthony Perl:

the owner, but the leader and then trying to shift the mindset of the

Anthony Perl:

people that are underneath them.

Anthony Perl:

And that's, a difficult thing to do, isn't it?

Angela Sedran:

And I've been doing some research

Anthony Perl:

some

Angela Sedran:

around Gen Z at the moment.

Anthony Perl:

moment,

Angela Sedran:

And one of the problems that has been flagged to me with Gen

Angela Sedran:

Z, and it also comes a lot from the social media that they look at, is that

Anthony Perl:

Is

Angela Sedran:

they're constantly being told they have all these rights at work.

Anthony Perl:

at work.

Angela Sedran:

And I've got to worry about my mental health.

Angela Sedran:

So God help you.

Angela Sedran:

If you ask me to read an email after five o'clock,

Anthony Perl:

5 o'clock.

Angela Sedran:

even five 15, you know, that's, that's a no, no.

Anthony Perl:

a no

Angela Sedran:

And the thing about mental health days, I've, I've, I've

Angela Sedran:

got to have a mental health day today because I'm feeling a little overwhelmed.

Anthony Perl:

overwhelmed.

Angela Sedran:

quite the way it works.

Anthony Perl:

way it

Angela Sedran:

A mental health day is when I just can't cope anymore.

Angela Sedran:

And I need some space sort of thing.

Anthony Perl:

sort of

Angela Sedran:

So on the one hand, we have the older generation who

Angela Sedran:

still have this idea that we've got to be like little soldiers who have

Angela Sedran:

to conform to the nine to five.

Angela Sedran:

And

Anthony Perl:

to

Angela Sedran:

literally, we're going to measure how many

Angela Sedran:

minutes you take for lunch.

Anthony Perl:

for lunch.

Angela Sedran:

But then you also have the new generation

Angela Sedran:

coming in, and not all of them.

Angela Sedran:

Obviously, this is a generalization who are like, Oh, well, I need to fulfill

Angela Sedran:

myself and I'm going to work certain hours a day and I'm not going to work too hard.

Anthony Perl:

too

Angela Sedran:

If I have to work too hard, then I'll just go and become a social

Angela Sedran:

media influence and make a lot of money.

Anthony Perl:

a lot of

Angela Sedran:

So there is a grind in terms of all of this.

Angela Sedran:

But what I would say is that

Anthony Perl:

is

Angela Sedran:

it also really comes down to the business's values.

Angela Sedran:

And if you hire to the right values.

Angela Sedran:

Hopefully you're going to get that match between what you need

Anthony Perl:

you need

Angela Sedran:

and

Anthony Perl:

and

Angela Sedran:

ability to actually manage.

Anthony Perl:

to

Angela Sedran:

Not more loosely because believe me, there is accountability,

Angela Sedran:

but manage a system where people feel valued because it's a give and take

Anthony Perl:

give

Angela Sedran:

and they're prepared to give if you are prepared to give.

Anthony Perl:

to give.

Anthony Perl:

What you talked about there about values, it's something that I've

Anthony Perl:

harped on about with people over the years, many, many times.

Anthony Perl:

I'm interested in your take on it because it is a difficult Scenario

Anthony Perl:

to get what the business values might be versus what personal values might

Anthony Perl:

be when it comes into, you know, a business that's been started by, uh,

Anthony Perl:

you know, one person and built up from there, there is a difference, but

Anthony Perl:

there isn't a difference and to some extent as well isn't there and it's,

Anthony Perl:

and it's, and, and trying to make sure that you've got that very clearly done.

Anthony Perl:

I know the whole idea of putting values down used to be the realm of

Anthony Perl:

corporates who just did it to tick a box.

Angela Sedran:

Yeah,

Anthony Perl:

but really, we know that working out your values is

Anthony Perl:

such an important tool to do.

Angela Sedran:

it really is.

Angela Sedran:

And values is a term that's bandied around like strategy,

Angela Sedran:

leadership, almost gets to the point.

Angela Sedran:

We've heard it so much.

Angela Sedran:

We don't even, we don't even hear it anymore,

Anthony Perl:

even hear it anymore.

Angela Sedran:

but values really,

Anthony Perl:

really,

Angela Sedran:

business has a set of values.

Anthony Perl:

fixed values.

Angela Sedran:

The thing is, have they

Anthony Perl:

have they

Angela Sedran:

them and nurtured them strategically to be the right values?

Anthony Perl:

values?

Angela Sedran:

So, I've worked with a number of businesses now where I

Angela Sedran:

walk in on that first day when we do

Anthony Perl:

when

Angela Sedran:

the audit,

Anthony Perl:

the audit,

Angela Sedran:

they have no actual articulated values.

Anthony Perl:

values.

Angela Sedran:

articulated values, and they might rattle off five

Angela Sedran:

words for me that they have.

Anthony Perl:

have,

Angela Sedran:

then they haven't actually written down what it means.

Angela Sedran:

What are the behaviors that support this value

Anthony Perl:

this

Angela Sedran:

and what I call the roadblocks, the rock

Angela Sedran:

stars and the roadblocks.

Anthony Perl:

the

Angela Sedran:

The roadblocks are the behaviors that we don't really

Angela Sedran:

want to see, the uncool behaviors.

Angela Sedran:

And that is the granularity that you actually need.

Anthony Perl:

actually need.

Angela Sedran:

So, One of my clients, they didn't have any values in their business.

Angela Sedran:

They were struggling with a couple of staff members,

Anthony Perl:

members.

Angela Sedran:

owners.

Angela Sedran:

They had two notes.

Angela Sedran:

They weren't keen on doing any sort of personal development discussions, and

Angela Sedran:

they were trying to work out with me, how do we hold this guy accountable?

Angela Sedran:

He's a fantastic operator, really knowledgeable, but

Angela Sedran:

quite toxic to the business.

Anthony Perl:

the business.

Angela Sedran:

was a perfectionist.

Angela Sedran:

He was a bit of a grump,

Anthony Perl:

of a

Angela Sedran:

but not the most pleasant person.

Angela Sedran:

He'd almost come across as rude sometimes to people and upset them.

Anthony Perl:

upset

Angela Sedran:

the way he did things also, just it, things didn't flow

Angela Sedran:

through the business because of him.

Anthony Perl:

because of

Angela Sedran:

So what we did is we

Anthony Perl:

did is

Angela Sedran:

went to the entire team

Anthony Perl:

team.

Angela Sedran:

and we asked them to Pick what their values were.

Angela Sedran:

I have a template for it.

Anthony Perl:

for

Angela Sedran:

then we came back.

Angela Sedran:

I went through all of them.

Anthony Perl:

all of

Angela Sedran:

We really group the similar ones together because there

Angela Sedran:

were themes that came through.

Angela Sedran:

One of the themes, for example, was family

Anthony Perl:

family

Angela Sedran:

for them was the way we actually treat people.

Angela Sedran:

And we treat everybody in our business that way, whether it's our customers,

Anthony Perl:

customers,

Angela Sedran:

our staff, our stakeholders, it doesn't matter.

Angela Sedran:

We would treat them as we would family.

Angela Sedran:

We really careful.

Anthony Perl:

care for.

Angela Sedran:

about having an actual definition, not just a word,

Anthony Perl:

a word.

Angela Sedran:

And then it was about saying, Okay, well, what

Angela Sedran:

behaviors do we want to see

Anthony Perl:

see

Angela Sedran:

support this value?

Anthony Perl:

this value?

Angela Sedran:

from the research we've done with the group, they

Angela Sedran:

had already nominated a few things.

Angela Sedran:

So we were able to start listing things that really supported that.

Anthony Perl:

supported that.

Angela Sedran:

we also said, Okay, well, what is an uncool behavior?

Angela Sedran:

So, for example,

Anthony Perl:

example,

Angela Sedran:

rude to somebody is an uncool behavior in

Angela Sedran:

terms of the family values.

Anthony Perl:

values.

Angela Sedran:

we to really implement values into your business.

Angela Sedran:

You have to have that clarity of a what exactly is the definition?

Angela Sedran:

Because having a word on its own tells you nothing

Anthony Perl:

you nothing.

Angela Sedran:

and then saying, Well, what is it that we want people to do?

Angela Sedran:

Because then you start rewarding people for that and celebrating that.

Angela Sedran:

And what is it we don't want people to do?

Anthony Perl:

people

Angela Sedran:

And what you find is the more you talk about this,

Angela Sedran:

the more your team will actually

Anthony Perl:

actually

Angela Sedran:

themselves.

Angela Sedran:

Police.

Angela Sedran:

I don't particularly like that word, but

Anthony Perl:

that

Angela Sedran:

might say something to you.

Angela Sedran:

Like,

Anthony Perl:

you like,

Angela Sedran:

are you okay?

Angela Sedran:

Because I noticed earlier that you were a bit short with Susan

Angela Sedran:

and it's not like you at all.

Anthony Perl:

you

Angela Sedran:

It's everything.

Angela Sedran:

Okay,

Anthony Perl:

okay?

Angela Sedran:

that's, you know, obviously one of our values that the uncool behavior

Anthony Perl:

behavior.

Angela Sedran:

and that's where you

Anthony Perl:

that's where you

Angela Sedran:

really start getting traction in a high performing culture

Anthony Perl:

performing

Angela Sedran:

when the staff know

Anthony Perl:

staff

Angela Sedran:

very clearly what's expected, what's not expected,

Angela Sedran:

and then they start actually looking out for those things.

Anthony Perl:

out for those things.

Anthony Perl:

It's such an important idea.

Anthony Perl:

So simple, but yet so often, um, done wrong from the beginning.

Anthony Perl:

I mean, I've, I recall this is a number of years ago working with

Anthony Perl:

a client and one of their values.

Anthony Perl:

Is.

Anthony Perl:

Really stood out for me as being something that I questioned because and ultimately

Anthony Perl:

it, it rang true that it was, that it was misplaced was it's, there are often when

Anthony Perl:

you talk about the words and then the explanations, but if you talk about the

Anthony Perl:

words, there are often words that people go, this should be a value of the business

Anthony Perl:

because they feel it's the right word.

Anthony Perl:

And that's what everybody does.

Anthony Perl:

So we should value this.

Anthony Perl:

Yes.

Anthony Perl:

And what actually happened was over the next 12 months as I was observing

Anthony Perl:

the business, that particular value, as great as it was in theory, in practice,

Anthony Perl:

it's not the way the CEO operated.

Anthony Perl:

That's not, that's not saying that he operated badly.

Anthony Perl:

Um, it's just saying that a value.

Anthony Perl:

That he thought was, should be there and should be really important.

Anthony Perl:

And ultimately a lot of messaging and things was built around that particular

Anthony Perl:

wording was simply not true for the way that he operated in the business.

Anthony Perl:

And he was not going to change that.

Anthony Perl:

So that word was just misleading.

Anthony Perl:

And what actually happened was they attracted a lot of staff.

Anthony Perl:

Because of that particular messaging and value, and ultimately they

Anthony Perl:

had a massive turnover of staff.

Anthony Perl:

What's fascinating is that the CEO ultimately left, changed, new people

Anthony Perl:

came in, the values changed, and retention has not been a problem.

Anthony Perl:

Um, and it's just because there was a mismatch, you know, as you said in the

Anthony Perl:

beginning, it's getting it right for, for that, uh, you know, and it's something

Anthony Perl:

that you have to review regularly.

Anthony Perl:

Absolutely.

Angela Sedran:

Absolutely.

Angela Sedran:

And the thing is, it actually speaks to,

Anthony Perl:

actually speaks to,

Angela Sedran:

I guess, the integrity of the business because if they saying

Angela Sedran:

one thing and doing something else, then there's a lack of integrity.

Anthony Perl:

of integrity.

Angela Sedran:

Um, but you're right about businesses saying, Oh, we need

Angela Sedran:

this as a value in a typical way that I dislike intensely is integrity.

Angela Sedran:

So for me, a test of a value is integrity.

Angela Sedran:

Would it be idiotic not to have this as a value?

Anthony Perl:

as a

Angela Sedran:

I don't, I can't think of any business that could say, Oh no, you

Angela Sedran:

know, we don't worry about integrity.

Angela Sedran:

It's not an issue.

Angela Sedran:

It's, it's, it's a ticket to the game, right?

Angela Sedran:

So for me, that shouldn't be one of the business's values because every

Angela Sedran:

business should have integrity.

Anthony Perl:

integrity.

Angela Sedran:

have a code of honor and they stick to it.

Anthony Perl:

they stick to it.

Angela Sedran:

Um, but it's, it's more about

Anthony Perl:

about

Angela Sedran:

the way, I guess, that.

Anthony Perl:

I

Angela Sedran:

The value is interpreted and it's also about

Anthony Perl:

about

Angela Sedran:

that is true to your core because you have

Angela Sedran:

to have that authenticity of

Anthony Perl:

of,

Angela Sedran:

our value and we genuinely live it.

Anthony Perl:

genuinely

Angela Sedran:

what you're saying is not untypical.

Angela Sedran:

I have seen many businesses.

Angela Sedran:

I worked a lot in mining and consulting for mining before.

Anthony Perl:

before,

Angela Sedran:

there were a lot of businesses where there was one particular

Angela Sedran:

one that I visited that had 12 values.

Anthony Perl:

values.

Angela Sedran:

one of the senior people said to me, Oh yeah, every time the owner,

Angela Sedran:

cause it was a privately owned company

Anthony Perl:

it

Angela Sedran:

of a new one, we just stick it on the wall over there,

Anthony Perl:

one, we

Angela Sedran:

we don't necessarily live to that value.

Anthony Perl:

there.

Anthony Perl:

Actually,

Angela Sedran:

And what happens is it undermines everything in that business.

Anthony Perl:

that business.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

And I mean, I love what you say there about the, you know, integrity

Anthony Perl:

as well, because The, the thing is, is that there are things that

Anthony Perl:

should be accepted and staple.

Anthony Perl:

I mean, it, it's, it fascinates me that communication, which should be a core

Anthony Perl:

value of every business because if you can't communicate, then how are you going

Anthony Perl:

to retain clients, suppliers, staff, like those things are all reliant on your

Anthony Perl:

ability to communicate, but yet sometimes.

Anthony Perl:

I feel as though it needs to be there as a reminder and, um, but

Anthony Perl:

I think quite often people don't understand the implications of it are.

Anthony Perl:

But as you say, it's a bit like integrity that you can't have a

Anthony Perl:

business without communicating.

Anthony Perl:

So need these core rules of the game if you like, uh, that need to be there, which

Anthony Perl:

are in addition to the values themselves.

Angela Sedran:

Yes, exactly.

Angela Sedran:

And communication is an interesting one, because what I find is where

Anthony Perl:

is where

Angela Sedran:

breaks down,

Anthony Perl:

down,

Angela Sedran:

usually two reasons for it.

Angela Sedran:

People are not good listeners.

Anthony Perl:

good listeners,

Angela Sedran:

And the other thing is people will

Anthony Perl:

people

Angela Sedran:

not say things because they are fearful of the

Angela Sedran:

potential yucky conversation.

Angela Sedran:

So they could be called courageous conversations, whatever you want to

Anthony Perl:

whatever

Angela Sedran:

call it, but it's usually a conversation where

Angela Sedran:

something hasn't quite gone right.

Anthony Perl:

gone right.

Angela Sedran:

And it may even be something like a PDP or a

Angela Sedran:

colleague may have upset you.

Anthony Perl:

you.

Angela Sedran:

it's about really

Anthony Perl:

really

Angela Sedran:

behaviors and a mindset into the business where

Anthony Perl:

business.

Angela Sedran:

if we've had a disagreement or if I'm offended by something, or

Angela Sedran:

let's say I'm even sitting you down for a performance development discussion.

Angela Sedran:

It's not about hitting you over the head with a stick and saying, Oh, my

Angela Sedran:

gosh, that was just you're an idiot.

Angela Sedran:

Um, that was terrible.

Anthony Perl:

terrible.

Angela Sedran:

got to punish you.

Angela Sedran:

It's about saying, Hey,

Anthony Perl:

saying,

Angela Sedran:

talk about this.

Angela Sedran:

So what do you think went well there?

Angela Sedran:

What do you think didn't go so well?

Anthony Perl:

so

Angela Sedran:

This is, let's say from performance managing you.

Anthony Perl:

an

Angela Sedran:

Now, if you don't immediately say to me, actually, I

Angela Sedran:

reckon that could be done better.

Anthony Perl:

could be done better.

Angela Sedran:

I will then prompt you to say, okay,

Anthony Perl:

say,

Angela Sedran:

I see what you are coming from.

Anthony Perl:

you are

Angela Sedran:

What about this particular area?

Angela Sedran:

How do you feel about that?

Angela Sedran:

And then we'll talk you through it.

Angela Sedran:

And if you still don't see it, I might say, well,

Anthony Perl:

I

Angela Sedran:

from my perspective, I really feel

Anthony Perl:

feel

Angela Sedran:

could have been done this way.

Angela Sedran:

What do you think?

Angela Sedran:

So it's about leading them through a question process where they

Anthony Perl:

process

Angela Sedran:

actually come to the point where they got,

Anthony Perl:

point where

Angela Sedran:

know, what?

Anthony Perl:

You know

Angela Sedran:

You're absolutely right.

Angela Sedran:

Or they think of it themselves.

Angela Sedran:

And that's a very different paradigm too.

Angela Sedran:

I've got to sit down and whack you over the head because you've done a lousy job.

Anthony Perl:

lousy

Angela Sedran:

And that's also not necessarily a yucky conversation either

Angela Sedran:

because there is development in there.

Angela Sedran:

It's not just right.

Angela Sedran:

This is your personal development discussion.

Angela Sedran:

Let's go through the list of 25 things I'm going to wrap you over the knuckles for.

Anthony Perl:

knuckles for.

Angela Sedran:

But if you've got that level of trust where I know I can

Angela Sedran:

come to you and say, look, you know,

Anthony Perl:

say,

Angela Sedran:

when you spoke over me, yes, Today in that

Angela Sedran:

meeting when you interrupted me.

Anthony Perl:

me,

Angela Sedran:

I really felt disrespected or I felt a bit embarrassed.

Anthony Perl:

bit

Angela Sedran:

please next time just watch out for that because you've done

Angela Sedran:

it a couple of times and it really makes me feel this particular way.

Angela Sedran:

Now if I frame something in that context of when you do dot dot dot I feel

Angela Sedran:

dot dot dot can you I'm not coming to you and saying, Hey, you're an idiot.

Angela Sedran:

You keep doing this.

Anthony Perl:

doing

Angela Sedran:

I'm actually owning it and saying, look, I feel this particular way.

Angela Sedran:

Could you please do it differently?

Anthony Perl:

it differently?

Angela Sedran:

that is also

Anthony Perl:

that is

Angela Sedran:

a very useful tool to have those conversations that could

Angela Sedran:

potentially be, I can, we could have a standup argument with somebody over this,

Anthony Perl:

over this.

Angela Sedran:

or you could

Anthony Perl:

Or,

Angela Sedran:

actually approach it from the paradigm of

Anthony Perl:

of,

Angela Sedran:

need to fix this.

Angela Sedran:

Your relationship,

Anthony Perl:

relationship,

Angela Sedran:

matters to me, and I'm honoring that.

Anthony Perl:

honoring that.

Angela Sedran:

It's not that we're best friends, but we work together,

Angela Sedran:

and it's important to me that we have a constructive relationship.

Anthony Perl:

relationship.

Angela Sedran:

it might be that, um,

Anthony Perl:

um,

Angela Sedran:

I have a staff member who I'm working with and developing

Angela Sedran:

and I have this life preserve and I can see they're struggling.

Anthony Perl:

struggling

Angela Sedran:

don't go and tell them that there's something wrong,

Angela Sedran:

I'm actually at fault as the leader

Anthony Perl:

as the

Angela Sedran:

because how can I let them drown if I'm standing

Angela Sedran:

there holding the life preserver?

Angela Sedran:

So

Anthony Perl:

Yeah,

Angela Sedran:

these are the kinds of behaviors when you use

Angela Sedran:

value as an example of, sorry,

Anthony Perl:

of

Angela Sedran:

communication as an example and as a value of a business.

Angela Sedran:

In a business where you can actually start shifting a paradigm

Angela Sedran:

of what that actually means.

Anthony Perl:

actually means.

Angela Sedran:

And it doesn't necessarily mean, sorry, you go

Anthony Perl:

was just going to say, it's so important.

Anthony Perl:

To, for people, you know, in that active communicating, uh, in that

Anthony Perl:

idea is to make people understand what your interpretation of it is.

Anthony Perl:

It's a bit like when you do, when you do a survey and they, and they say, can you

Anthony Perl:

rank me, can you rank whatever out of 10?

Anthony Perl:

Now, there are some people that will only ever give a nine.

Anthony Perl:

it could be the best thing ever, but they will never give a 10 because

Anthony Perl:

they're always holding me back in case there's someone better.

Anthony Perl:

There's all sorts of reasons for it.

Anthony Perl:

So how do you actually work out that that someone's nine is actually

Anthony Perl:

really a 10 for everybody else.

Anthony Perl:

And I definitely I remember working years ago in a business where it

Anthony Perl:

came to Performance review time.

Anthony Perl:

And, um, there was a certain percentage that was thrown up as saying this is what

Anthony Perl:

you can get when the truth was that they never gave that full amount that they,

Anthony Perl:

you know, if if said it was going to be 7.

Anthony Perl:

5 percent they never gave more than 5 percent bonus, uh, you

Anthony Perl:

know, because that was the That was the rules that they played by.

Anthony Perl:

Now, every, if all the staff had have known that that was what it was

Anthony Perl:

like going into it, you would have had a very different perspective.

Anthony Perl:

But if you go into performance review thinking, well,

Anthony Perl:

I've done everything great.

Anthony Perl:

I've been really good all this year.

Anthony Perl:

Everyone's told me I've been great.

Anthony Perl:

And I'm going to get 7.

Anthony Perl:

5 percent bonus out of this.

Anthony Perl:

And they say, you've been really great.

Anthony Perl:

We're going to give you five.

Anthony Perl:

a, it's, it's a really, uh, slap, big slap in your face.

Anthony Perl:

And I think, you know, that's a, a raw example, but that

Anthony Perl:

happens all the time, doesn't it?

Anthony Perl:

In the way that people's understanding of what words mean and what expectations

Anthony Perl:

are That needs to be, you know, on the table and part of the value

Anthony Perl:

system of understanding that you're going to be on that same page.

Angela Sedran:

very much.

Angela Sedran:

So, and I think a lot of disagreements and guffawfuls happen because

Angela Sedran:

people are not on the same page.

Anthony Perl:

page.

Angela Sedran:

there's two,

Anthony Perl:

the

Angela Sedran:

reason I think for that is that

Anthony Perl:

is

Angela Sedran:

They make assumptions.

Anthony Perl:

assumptions.

Angela Sedran:

So I make the assumption that a five means the same to everybody,

Angela Sedran:

or I make the assumption that, you know,

Anthony Perl:

that,

Angela Sedran:

would give something a 10 because it's, it was really good,

Anthony Perl:

really

Angela Sedran:

but I'm assuming you would do the same.

Anthony Perl:

do the same.

Angela Sedran:

So assumptions are one of the biggest things that get in our way.

Angela Sedran:

So I would always say, test your assumptions.

Anthony Perl:

assumptions.

Angela Sedran:

make sure that you've tested them before you go into something.

Anthony Perl:

something.

Angela Sedran:

So

Anthony Perl:

So,

Angela Sedran:

at the beginning, when you start going into the performance

Angela Sedran:

review process, I would say to my boss, what does good look like?

Anthony Perl:

like?

Angela Sedran:

you give, so what would be the best score you would give it

Angela Sedran:

or whatever the question is, but I would make sure that we both understood

Anthony Perl:

understood

Angela Sedran:

were viewed and measured.

Anthony Perl:

and

Angela Sedran:

And look, in terms of performance reviews, there's always

Angela Sedran:

a little bit of subjectivity as well.

Anthony Perl:

as

Angela Sedran:

Um,

Anthony Perl:

Um,

Angela Sedran:

man's poison is another man's pleasure, hopefully in performance

Angela Sedran:

reviews, we're somewhat aligned,

Anthony Perl:

aligned.

Angela Sedran:

still always

Anthony Perl:

would

Angela Sedran:

test assumptions because they can trap you up.

Anthony Perl:

you up.

Anthony Perl:

I don't think you talk about that from an internal point of view, but the same

Anthony Perl:

thing can happen externally as well.

Anthony Perl:

That, uh, you know, if your clients have an expectation at a certain

Anthony Perl:

level and you're not on the same page with that, that also spells trouble.

Angela Sedran:

It really does.

Angela Sedran:

So there's an interesting story.

Angela Sedran:

I was asked to give feedback on, um, a business, a club that I'm a business

Angela Sedran:

club that I'm a member of recently.

Anthony Perl:

recently.

Angela Sedran:

And we were invited by email.

Angela Sedran:

Would you like to come and do it?

Angela Sedran:

I said, yes, I made appointment with the CEO.

Anthony Perl:

a point

Angela Sedran:

It was half an hour.

Anthony Perl:

It was half an hour

Angela Sedran:

And I then had another appointment straight after that,

Anthony Perl:

that.

Angela Sedran:

turned up on time and he was 15 minutes late for half an

Angela Sedran:

hour appointment and I was starting to get antsy because I had to,

Anthony Perl:

I

Angela Sedran:

I knew I had to leave on the dot to get to my next appointment

Anthony Perl:

next appointment

Angela Sedran:

he then turned up and he was quite flustered.

Angela Sedran:

He was clearly having a bad day.

Anthony Perl:

a bad

Angela Sedran:

Um, and there had been an email that had gone out a

Angela Sedran:

few weeks before for a charity event that a friend and I were working on.

Angela Sedran:

His team never responded.

Anthony Perl:

responded.

Angela Sedran:

he came downstairs, I said, Look, no problem.

Angela Sedran:

I know that things happen.

Anthony Perl:

happen.

Angela Sedran:

stay.

Angela Sedran:

But whilst I have you,

Anthony Perl:

I

Angela Sedran:

Can I just ask you, we sent this email a few weeks ago.

Angela Sedran:

No one's responded.

Angela Sedran:

And he was like, well,

Anthony Perl:

and

Angela Sedran:

very busy.

Angela Sedran:

And you

Anthony Perl:

busy

Angela Sedran:

know, we get lots of these requests.

Angela Sedran:

And I said to him, well, I'm actually quite busy too.

Anthony Perl:

too.

Angela Sedran:

But all I needed from you was to say, forget

Angela Sedran:

it, go away or something.

Angela Sedran:

Send me anything, smoke signals, a carrier pigeon, whatever.

Angela Sedran:

Just

Anthony Perl:

whatever,

Angela Sedran:

tell me that you've received it and then

Angela Sedran:

you can't do it because I don't know what's happened with this.

Anthony Perl:

happened with this.

Angela Sedran:

Um, and he calmed down a little bit and then we spoke

Angela Sedran:

for a little bit and then I left,

Anthony Perl:

and then I left.

Angela Sedran:

but he had actually asked me for my opinion and my feedback.

Angela Sedran:

And I genuinely went with the attitude of, I love this place.

Angela Sedran:

I want to help make it a bit better because there were a few

Angela Sedran:

things that could be improved.

Anthony Perl:

be improved.

Angela Sedran:

So that evening I sat down and I thought, well, I'm not going

Angela Sedran:

to go into the city again to do this.

Angela Sedran:

It takes me

Anthony Perl:

takes

Angela Sedran:

half an hour on both ends.

Angela Sedran:

It's just a waste of my time to do it again.

Angela Sedran:

And I didn't feel,

Anthony Perl:

didn't

Angela Sedran:

My time had been respected

Anthony Perl:

respected,

Angela Sedran:

he should have apologized to me for being late and he should

Angela Sedran:

not have been rude to me either.

Anthony Perl:

rude to me either.

Angela Sedran:

So I wrote him an email and it was a very nicely

Angela Sedran:

worded email and I said look

Anthony Perl:

nicely locked.

Angela Sedran:

Your style is very dominant and very direct, and it's incredibly

Angela Sedran:

useful in a number of situations.

Anthony Perl:

situations.

Angela Sedran:

that style is only 9 percent of the population.

Anthony Perl:

of

Angela Sedran:

So please consider

Anthony Perl:

consider

Angela Sedran:

there are 91 percent of the population.

Angela Sedran:

This does not work for.

Anthony Perl:

work

Angela Sedran:

And for me, I really felt disrespected.

Angela Sedran:

And I was quite humiliated the way you treated me.

Anthony Perl:

treated me.

Angela Sedran:

And then aside from that, you've asked me about

Angela Sedran:

how we can make this club better.

Anthony Perl:

make this

Angela Sedran:

a number of emails over the last year to my relationship

Angela Sedran:

manager, to the CEO of the club.

Angela Sedran:

Haven't had a response.

Anthony Perl:

had a response.

Angela Sedran:

I really think that there is an opportunity to improve

Angela Sedran:

the service in this business because

Anthony Perl:

because,

Angela Sedran:

from my perspective and some of the other members,

Anthony Perl:

of the

Angela Sedran:

we never hear from you.

Angela Sedran:

Once we've joined up,

Anthony Perl:

we've

Angela Sedran:

you're so busy trying to sign up new people that

Angela Sedran:

we never hear from you again.

Anthony Perl:

from you again.

Angela Sedran:

And I said, look, you know, I have heard that

Angela Sedran:

in the past it was a bit of a

Anthony Perl:

was a

Angela Sedran:

cocaine and party culture because it's established business owners.

Anthony Perl:

business

Angela Sedran:

I didn't believe any of that.

Angela Sedran:

I chose to overlook it because I believed in you and I believed in

Angela Sedran:

the service and in the membership.

Anthony Perl:

invention.

Angela Sedran:

Oh my gosh.

Anthony Perl:

Oh my

Angela Sedran:

He

Anthony Perl:

he

Angela Sedran:

an email that knocked my socks off.

Angela Sedran:

He told me I was rude.

Angela Sedran:

I was unprofessional.

Angela Sedran:

How dare I, I talk about people's businesses like that.

Angela Sedran:

And I appreciate he was having a bad day, but

Anthony Perl:

day,

Angela Sedran:

he acknowledged that he was rude to me the day before, but he

Angela Sedran:

didn't send me an email that evening saying, I'm so sorry for being rude.

Angela Sedran:

Or even 10 minutes after he was rude to me,

Anthony Perl:

rude

Angela Sedran:

or pick up the phone.

Anthony Perl:

up the phone.

Angela Sedran:

And that should have been an instance where

Anthony Perl:

instance where,

Angela Sedran:

Instead of him saying,

Anthony Perl:

saying,

Angela Sedran:

names effectively, he should have just

Anthony Perl:

he

Angela Sedran:

said to me, I'm so sorry to hear that.

Angela Sedran:

That's really interesting though.

Anthony Perl:

though,

Angela Sedran:

Can you tell me more?

Anthony Perl:

me more?

Angela Sedran:

Because I wasn't calling his business names.

Angela Sedran:

I was literally saying, well, there is.

Angela Sedran:

And for me, if it had been my business, yes, I probably would

Angela Sedran:

have been a bit still taken aback.

Angela Sedran:

But if this had happened in the past

Anthony Perl:

in the

Angela Sedran:

and I knew it, then I'd say, okay, well, You know, we did

Angela Sedran:

have some issues at some point, but

Anthony Perl:

at some

Angela Sedran:

you're right.

Angela Sedran:

We did clean it up.

Angela Sedran:

But that, that's still there that some people are still talking about it.

Angela Sedran:

So tell me more, what else can we do to fix this?

Anthony Perl:

to

Angela Sedran:

Even in the end of the day, if I don't ask that use

Angela Sedran:

everything that person's shared with me.

Anthony Perl:

with

Angela Sedran:

If I'm asking you for advice to then barrack

Angela Sedran:

you, because you've given me

Anthony Perl:

you've

Angela Sedran:

feedback is, is ridiculous.

Anthony Perl:

ridiculous.

Angela Sedran:

So there's got to be a level of trust in any business

Angela Sedran:

and your customers have to be able to come to you and say, look,

Anthony Perl:

and say, Look,

Angela Sedran:

I really think there's an area for improvement in this space.

Angela Sedran:

I'm not saying they've got to come and give you a bollocking.

Angela Sedran:

And sometimes they do.

Angela Sedran:

And that's not really right either, unless it's

Anthony Perl:

either

Angela Sedran:

of deserved.

Angela Sedran:

Sometimes we have to take that.

Anthony Perl:

have to take

Angela Sedran:

But you've got to have a level of trust in the business

Anthony Perl:

in the business

Angela Sedran:

because your customers are going to,

Anthony Perl:

are

Angela Sedran:

your value is transferred down to them.

Anthony Perl:

values transfer down

Angela Sedran:

If you have a culture that's a little bit sour,

Angela Sedran:

where you don't trust each other, where you can't talk to each other,

Anthony Perl:

each

Angela Sedran:

customers in all likelihood are not going to be

Angela Sedran:

able to come and talk to you.

Anthony Perl:

to come and talk to you.

Anthony Perl:

There is so much to explore in, in, in what you've just said there, and I'd

Anthony Perl:

love to do that, but we're going to, uh, our, our listeners are going to end

Anthony Perl:

up going, hang on, we've got to, we've got to get to work, got to do these

Angela Sedran:

Yeah, sure.

Angela Sedran:

Correct.

Anthony Perl:

certainly plenty in that because I think that, um, realistically,

Anthony Perl:

um, Um, what you've talked about just then is such a common problem.

Anthony Perl:

I learned very early on in the piece from a, from a, uh, a very good boss I had

Anthony Perl:

that it's all about the way you respond.

Anthony Perl:

Things will go wrong.

Anthony Perl:

Um, we're human beings, we make mistakes, we get upset, we have outside influences.

Anthony Perl:

But it's how you respond is absolutely everything because that's what you

Anthony Perl:

remember and I've seen too often examples of businesses that do something along

Anthony Perl:

the lines of what you've just described and that's what everyone remembers,

Anthony Perl:

whereas if they'd have turned around and he'd have apologized, as you said, and

Anthony Perl:

You know, they'd done something about that, listened, taken on some advice.

Anthony Perl:

Then the way you would have felt about that business and the way you

Anthony Perl:

would be talking about that business would be completely different.

Anthony Perl:

And, and in fact, one big differentiator would have been you probably would have

Anthony Perl:

actually mentioned the business name.

Anthony Perl:

I'm not asking you to mention the

Angela Sedran:

Correct.

Anthony Perl:

but you would have done if, if the experience is positive,

Anthony Perl:

we're never afraid to really tell people about it when it's negative.

Anthony Perl:

Um, you know, we, we might in a private situation, probably not in a

Anthony Perl:

podcast, go out and say, well, they're a bunch of loonies, but they're, um,

Anthony Perl:

but, um, You know, we do tell people don't go near them, you know, and,

Anthony Perl:

and that's the, that's a problem.

Anthony Perl:

And people, know, I often say to people, you never know what you're missing out

Anthony Perl:

by having poor or no communication.

Anthony Perl:

And that's a really good example of very poor communication.

Angela Sedran:

Even just the opportunity to say, look, I really felt this

Angela Sedran:

way and then we, we sort it out.

Angela Sedran:

Right.

Anthony Perl:

out,

Angela Sedran:

But now this is kind of left in the air.

Angela Sedran:

And every time I go there, I feel a little bit uncomfortable.

Angela Sedran:

So if there's one thing I can leave people with today,

Anthony Perl:

today.

Angela Sedran:

this is something that Harry up and on it, told my dad at his

Angela Sedran:

graduation, kindness and good manners cost

Anthony Perl:

manners cost

Angela Sedran:

nothing.

Anthony Perl:

nothing.

Angela Sedran:

them liberally.

Angela Sedran:

And it works both ways as well.

Angela Sedran:

You know, if in that situation, he just said to me, look, I'm really sorry.

Angela Sedran:

I'm having a really lousy day or a lousy week or whatever the case is.

Anthony Perl:

or whatever the

Angela Sedran:

No problem.

Angela Sedran:

It happens to all of us.

Angela Sedran:

You know, I have, I have shitty weeks too,

Anthony Perl:

shitty

Angela Sedran:

all lousy days.

Anthony Perl:

days.

Angela Sedran:

understand that

Anthony Perl:

And I

Angela Sedran:

we're all human,

Anthony Perl:

all

Angela Sedran:

but I don't know if it's an ego thing that gets in the way.

Anthony Perl:

in the

Angela Sedran:

So yeah, remember you're dealing with humans.

Angela Sedran:

You don't always know what they're going through.

Anthony Perl:

through.

Angela Sedran:

Good manners and kindness literally cost nothing.

Anthony Perl:

cost nothing.

Angela Sedran:

And even in a business, you know, the more you can get that going

Angela Sedran:

in a business, the easier it is to create values that everybody loves and that works

Anthony Perl:

that

Angela Sedran:

business.

Anthony Perl:

the business.

Anthony Perl:

Um, want to give listeners the opportunity to also say that there's ways that they

Anthony Perl:

can get in touch with you and we're going to share that in the show notes, but also

Anthony Perl:

that, uh, you've got a thing called the profit pulse and the five P profit formula

Anthony Perl:

that you've got that, uh, we'll include a link to that in the show notes as well.

Anthony Perl:

So people can get a hold of that information.

Anthony Perl:

um, also I wanted to point out that we're going to have an

Anthony Perl:

extra little discussion about.

Anthony Perl:

How to identify and fix the bottlenecks, uh, in your business

Anthony Perl:

that are holding you back.

Anthony Perl:

We're going to have that little separate discussion in our bonus bit of content.

Anthony Perl:

So again, something else to look forward to in the show notes.

Anthony Perl:

Click on that and we'll get that there.

Anthony Perl:

But I just wanted to wrap up the main podcast with a couple of things.

Anthony Perl:

One, uh, as we talked about right in the intro, you and

Anthony Perl:

I met at a function for B1G1.

Anthony Perl:

And the.

Anthony Perl:

Thing that I wanted to, to ask you about, and for those who don't

Anthony Perl:

know who B one G one are, buy one, give one, look up B one G one.

Anthony Perl:

We'll probably include that as well in the

Angela Sedran:

Love it.

Angela Sedran:

Yep.

Anthony Perl:

Love it.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

And go back to the, uh, interview I did in a previous episode

Anthony Perl:

sometime ago with Paul Dun.

Anthony Perl:

It was earlier this year, and you'll hear a lot more about it there.

Anthony Perl:

But talk to me about the importance of impact for you, uh, because

Anthony Perl:

that's what B one G one is all about.

Angela Sedran:

Look, I spent most of my life in corporate and I was stuck there.

Angela Sedran:

I had golden handcuffs because I was raising my child on my own.

Angela Sedran:

His dad died when he was a baby,

Anthony Perl:

when he was a

Angela Sedran:

but it never really

Anthony Perl:

really

Angela Sedran:

genuine to me.

Angela Sedran:

So as soon as I could, I left, which was eight years ago.

Angela Sedran:

I started my own business.

Anthony Perl:

my own business.

Angela Sedran:

And part of that was making a difference and making an impact.

Anthony Perl:

an

Angela Sedran:

So my goal is actually to help a million women achieve financial

Angela Sedran:

freedom or a life on their terms by 2013.

Anthony Perl:

by 2030.

Anthony Perl:

Thank you.

Angela Sedran:

And I was looking for a way to do that.

Anthony Perl:

that,

Angela Sedran:

I wasn't sure.

Anthony Perl:

sure

Angela Sedran:

way forward was, because I've often seen companies put, I donate

Angela Sedran:

to X, Y, and Z on their website, whether they do or don't, one never knows.

Angela Sedran:

And

Anthony Perl:

never

Angela Sedran:

with a lot of these charities, you don't know where

Angela Sedran:

the money actually ends up going.

Anthony Perl:

ends up

Angela Sedran:

But when Paul was introduced to me by a

Angela Sedran:

friend and B1G1 with it,

Anthony Perl:

with

Angela Sedran:

I really fell in love with it because I can actually

Angela Sedran:

donate to projects that are,

Anthony Perl:

that

Angela Sedran:

Doing exactly that.

Anthony Perl:

that.

Angela Sedran:

million women is not just obviously clients,

Angela Sedran:

although that would be lovely.

Angela Sedran:

I don't know how I'd cope with it.

Angela Sedran:

Actually, maybe it wouldn't be lovely.

Anthony Perl:

it would be lovely.

Angela Sedran:

It's also about my speaking.

Angela Sedran:

It's about the impact that I can make.

Angela Sedran:

It's about

Anthony Perl:

it's

Angela Sedran:

I can do to help women with maternal health.

Anthony Perl:

health.

Angela Sedran:

people don't know this, but

Anthony Perl:

this,

Angela Sedran:

something like five jumbo jets of women a day die because

Angela Sedran:

they don't have access to maternal health in third world countries.

Anthony Perl:

countries.

Angela Sedran:

Trafficking is the biggest industry in the entire world.

Angela Sedran:

Human slavery

Anthony Perl:

slavery is

Angela Sedran:

now than in the days before the American Civil War,

Anthony Perl:

Civil War.

Angela Sedran:

and generally it's women and Children.

Anthony Perl:

and children.

Angela Sedran:

It's bigger than the cocaine industry.

Angela Sedran:

It's the biggest industry in the world,

Anthony Perl:

in the world.

Angela Sedran:

and it galls me to think that women's value of the biggest

Angela Sedran:

value monetarily actually is because of

Anthony Perl:

because

Angela Sedran:

sex with us.

Angela Sedran:

You know, there's so much more to it.

Anthony Perl:

much

Angela Sedran:

So I am a very, very big proponent of helping

Anthony Perl:

of

Angela Sedran:

women get an education.

Angela Sedran:

So I will also sponsor things through B1 and G1 like,

Anthony Perl:

and G1

Angela Sedran:

um, providing them with sanitary wear so

Angela Sedran:

that they can stay in school

Anthony Perl:

in school,

Angela Sedran:

or providing them with a bicycle so that they can get to school.

Anthony Perl:

get to school.

Angela Sedran:

Maternal health is another one that's really,

Angela Sedran:

really important for women

Anthony Perl:

really

Angela Sedran:

because whether it's something like, um,

Anthony Perl:

like,

Angela Sedran:

hospital by the river.

Angela Sedran:

I don't know if anybody's ever read that book by Catherine Hamlin,

Anthony Perl:

but by

Angela Sedran:

where these little girls are married off at the age of 12 and

Angela Sedran:

they can't give birth at that age because their little bodies are too small.

Angela Sedran:

But because they strain and the child won't fit through the birth canal,

Anthony Perl:

through the

Angela Sedran:

the child ends up dying and they tear everything down there.

Angela Sedran:

So

Anthony Perl:

they

Angela Sedran:

three or four days later, they pass this dead fetus.

Anthony Perl:

later,

Angela Sedran:

But everything's torn, so they leak, and they get ostracized and

Angela Sedran:

sent to live on the edges of villages.

Anthony Perl:

live on

Angela Sedran:

And they have to live that way for the rest of their life.

Anthony Perl:

way for

Angela Sedran:

And what Catherine Hanlon's hospital's doing is it's actually

Angela Sedran:

providing them with a surgery to fix it.

Anthony Perl:

a surgery to

Angela Sedran:

There was another instance in, um, in the bulge of Africa

Angela Sedran:

where these little girls were being taken off by the rebels and raped.

Angela Sedran:

And then once they had their children, they were no longer useful.

Angela Sedran:

So,

Anthony Perl:

useful.

Angela Sedran:

are operations there to actually teach these girls skills.

Anthony Perl:

girls

Angela Sedran:

And also empower them to understand it's not a shameful thing.

Angela Sedran:

They can go back to their families if they want to.

Anthony Perl:

if

Angela Sedran:

Their families will accept it, so it's also

Angela Sedran:

about training the families.

Anthony Perl:

training the

Angela Sedran:

in instances where they don't, they actually teach them the

Angela Sedran:

life skills so that they can afford

Anthony Perl:

so that they

Angela Sedran:

to look after themselves and their child.

Angela Sedran:

And these are the things, to me,

Anthony Perl:

things,

Angela Sedran:

are making a difference.

Anthony Perl:

a

Angela Sedran:

I was CEO of a children's charity in Australia that provided wishes

Angela Sedran:

to kids who were not actually dying, that was just, they were chronically ill.

Anthony Perl:

they were

Angela Sedran:

And whilst I feel that that's a lovely cause,

Anthony Perl:

cause,

Angela Sedran:

there are much more critical things that

Angela Sedran:

we actually need to address.

Anthony Perl:

need to

Angela Sedran:

And B1G1 helps me do that.

Anthony Perl:

me

Angela Sedran:

it also gives me a community who think like me.

Anthony Perl:

who

Angela Sedran:

And maybe this is why when

Anthony Perl:

this is

Angela Sedran:

and my eyes locked across the room, we have this instant,

Angela Sedran:

like, we've got to speak to each other.

Anthony Perl:

got to speak to each other.

Anthony Perl:

I think so.

Anthony Perl:

I think it's just, it's an amazing community and, uh, and the impacts

Anthony Perl:

that you're making, uh, by doing, you know, those things are huge

Anthony Perl:

and being able to speak about it.

Anthony Perl:

And I think the accessibility to be able to make an impact on that.

Anthony Perl:

Um, I, I feel strongly about B1G1 as, as listeners would know.

Anthony Perl:

I'm lucky enough to have known, uh, Paul Dunn is one of the founders for B1G1.

Anthony Perl:

A long, long time, and, um, every opportunity to speak about B1G1

Anthony Perl:

is, is worthwhile because I per, I personally believe that the best

Anthony Perl:

way to change the world is to make an impact one person at a time, and

Anthony Perl:

B1G1 is enabling that to, to actually happen as well, which is, which is

Angela Sedran:

It certainly is.

Anthony Perl:

Thank you.

Anthony Perl:

Just to wrap things up, one final question I'd like to ask my guests.

Anthony Perl:

What is the, um, what is the big ah ha that clients have with you when

Anthony Perl:

they start to work with you that you wish other people would know in

Anthony Perl:

advance that we're going to have?

Angela Sedran:

Oh, that's an interesting question.

Angela Sedran:

The big aha for me would be,

Anthony Perl:

would be

Angela Sedran:

think one of the biggest ahas comes for them when we actually go

Angela Sedran:

through that initial diagnostic process.

Angela Sedran:

And this is where we'll talk about bottlenecks later on.

Anthony Perl:

later on.

Angela Sedran:

when we actually start strategically looking

Angela Sedran:

at their business, because

Anthony Perl:

business,

Angela Sedran:

of my superpowers is The real ability to look at a business

Angela Sedran:

and think strategically and look at it from different angles and see things

Angela Sedran:

that are right or wrong, but then also see the potential of that business.

Anthony Perl:

of

Angela Sedran:

So working with them, um, the first aha is really

Angela Sedran:

to, to see the low hanging fruit

Anthony Perl:

the low

Angela Sedran:

and realize what they should be saying no to,

Anthony Perl:

saying

Angela Sedran:

and then working with me

Anthony Perl:

working

Angela Sedran:

get a team

Anthony Perl:

get a

Angela Sedran:

sees that as well, and then understands where the

Angela Sedran:

business has to go and gets on board.

Anthony Perl:

and gets on board.

Anthony Perl:

Fantastic.

Anthony Perl:

I love that.

Anthony Perl:

Um, as you alluded to, we're going to have a continued discussion and there'll

Anthony Perl:

be a link to be able to access that on how to identify the bottlenecks in your

Anthony Perl:

business that are holding you back.

Anthony Perl:

Um, but as far as this is concerned, this main podcast, it's such a

Anthony Perl:

pleasure having you on the program.

Anthony Perl:

We covered so much territory and probably could talk for about

Anthony Perl:

another 10 hours quite comfortably.

Anthony Perl:

So, uh, but for now, thank you so much for being part of the podcast.

Angela Sedran:

Oh, it's been my absolute pleasure.

Angela Sedran:

Thank you so much for having me.

Anthony Perl:

pleasure.

Anthony Perl:

Thank you so much for having me.

Anthony Perl:

Alright, well now that we've finished the main part of the

Anthony Perl:

show, we can talk about the

Angela Sedran:

Mm hmm.

Anthony Perl:

So give me a little bit of an insight into, uh, the

Anthony Perl:

bottlenecks that you're seeing that are happening in business and, and

Anthony Perl:

how you actually identify them.

Angela Sedran:

Um, well, I have a product called the compass diagnostic, which is

Angela Sedran:

a half day diagnostic where we really delve into your business and start

Angela Sedran:

looking deeply under the hood as to

Anthony Perl:

the

Angela Sedran:

what the opportunities, the threats, the strengths and weaknesses are.

Anthony Perl:

and

Angela Sedran:

But I think you spoke about my

Anthony Perl:

about

Angela Sedran:

in the podcast that we spoke in or that we chatted in together,

Anthony Perl:

chatted in

Angela Sedran:

that is a mini diagnostic where we actually look at five areas

Angela Sedran:

of your business that contribute to profit, and we start looking for

Angela Sedran:

areas that could be a bottleneck.

Anthony Perl:

that could be a

Angela Sedran:

From my experience in general, number one, people

Angela Sedran:

are the biggest bottleneck.

Anthony Perl:

bottleneck.

Angela Sedran:

I think I mentioned this to you before, but I cannot tell you how many

Angela Sedran:

business owners have effectively said to me that it's like managing a kindergarten.

Anthony Perl:

kindergarten.

Angela Sedran:

And part of that is in fact,

Anthony Perl:

is in fact,

Angela Sedran:

number one, that staff don't take accountability,

Anthony Perl:

Tea.

Angela Sedran:

but that staff haven't necessarily been trained

Angela Sedran:

to become problem solvers.

Anthony Perl:

solvers.

Angela Sedran:

So it's not uncommon for somebody to say to me, all my staff do

Angela Sedran:

come to me with problems continually.

Anthony Perl:

continually.

Angela Sedran:

And the mistake that the leader makes in that instance

Angela Sedran:

is to take the problem and fix it as opposed to saying to that person,

Anthony Perl:

to that person,

Angela Sedran:

that was really well spotted.

Angela Sedran:

Thank you so much for bringing that to my attention.

Anthony Perl:

my

Angela Sedran:

What I'd love for you to do is I'd love you to go away and come up

Angela Sedran:

with a couple of ideas on how to fix that.

Anthony Perl:

to fix that.

Angela Sedran:

I'd like you to choose the best one of those.

Anthony Perl:

one of

Angela Sedran:

It may not be the best solution overall.

Angela Sedran:

I don't want you to worry about that.

Angela Sedran:

It's not a

Anthony Perl:

that.

Angela Sedran:

being judged on that.

Anthony Perl:

judged

Angela Sedran:

come to me with a solution because that's really going to be helpful

Angela Sedran:

to me and then send them off on their way.

Anthony Perl:

on their

Angela Sedran:

And the more you train them to do that,

Anthony Perl:

do

Angela Sedran:

the more they are going to already be in the mindset

Angela Sedran:

of, I'm not going to go to her unless I've already got a solution in place.

Anthony Perl:

in place.

Anthony Perl:

Yes, I've heard it commonly referred to as the one, three, one,

Anthony Perl:

the one problem, three potential solutions, one recommendation.

Angela Sedran:

Yes,

Anthony Perl:

Um, yes,

Angela Sedran:

it's, it's getting into the habit of doing that because

Angela Sedran:

otherwise you're always going to have that bottleneck, particularly then

Anthony Perl:

particularly

Angela Sedran:

you as a leader do nothing and you don't push it back on them,

Anthony Perl:

on

Angela Sedran:

start getting resentment building up

Anthony Perl:

and building up

Angela Sedran:

and your workload builds up and then you break.

Anthony Perl:

you break.

Anthony Perl:

Okay.

Angela Sedran:

So people by far are one of the biggest

Anthony Perl:

are

Angela Sedran:

bottlenecks in the business.

Anthony Perl:

in the

Angela Sedran:

common one is not hiring people to values.

Anthony Perl:

values

Angela Sedran:

And not going through a rigorous enough

Anthony Perl:

enough

Angela Sedran:

appraisal, or at least some sort of appraisal of the person

Anthony Perl:

person

Angela Sedran:

they'll fit into your business.

Anthony Perl:

your

Angela Sedran:

Because you can get somebody who's absolutely outstanding

Angela Sedran:

at what they do, but then from a values perspective, it poisons the entire team.

Anthony Perl:

team.

Angela Sedran:

also had instances of my clients employing people who appeared

Angela Sedran:

to be able to do everything and then it turns out that they couldn't.

Anthony Perl:

that they

Angela Sedran:

So, again, not wanting to have the courageous conversations,

Angela Sedran:

they kept them on, they actually rejigged their job so that they could

Angela Sedran:

stay on, and it cost the business money.

Anthony Perl:

business

Angela Sedran:

that person wasn't particularly fulfilled

Angela Sedran:

in their role either.

Anthony Perl:

their role

Angela Sedran:

So setting the wrong people free as fast as possible

Anthony Perl:

possible,

Angela Sedran:

one of the biggest ways to actually get rid of some of

Angela Sedran:

the bottlenecks in your business.

Anthony Perl:

in your business.

Angela Sedran:

must say I was rather horrified because recently

Anthony Perl:

recently,

Angela Sedran:

I attended an event where one of the speakers

Angela Sedran:

said his recommendation is to hire fast and fire fast.

Anthony Perl:

fire

Angela Sedran:

And honestly, I nearly fell off my chair because

Anthony Perl:

because

Angela Sedran:

the wrong person and high turnover can cost you up to

Angela Sedran:

three times their annual salary,

Anthony Perl:

salary.

Angela Sedran:

which is an astronomical number.

Angela Sedran:

Not only that, the amount of time it takes to then re recruit.

Anthony Perl:

re recruit,

Angela Sedran:

to try and manage them while they're there is a ridiculous

Angela Sedran:

waste of manpower, resources, money.

Angela Sedran:

So my advice to you is hire a bit slower if you need to,

Anthony Perl:

you need

Angela Sedran:

but make sure that that person is the right fit for your business.

Anthony Perl:

for your

Angela Sedran:

I would also suggest testing them a little bit around some

Angela Sedran:

of the skills they have, particularly if there's technical skills that they need.

Anthony Perl:

that they

Angela Sedran:

Invest a little bit in that because if you hire the wrong people,

Anthony Perl:

people,

Angela Sedran:

to slow everything down and it could very well

Angela Sedran:

poison your culture as well.

Anthony Perl:

as well.

Anthony Perl:

Yes, very, very important, uh, to, to look at those things.

Anthony Perl:

I know there's so many more things that we can talk about in this,

Anthony Perl:

in the, in these bottlenecks and things, but I think by far they're

Anthony Perl:

probably the two biggest ones I know, certainly people is such a massive one.

Anthony Perl:

Um, you know, I know even in my own business at times, I know I'm the

Anthony Perl:

bottleneck, uh, it's trying to get out of the way that is, uh, that is the, you

Anthony Perl:

know, the challenging part of the process.

Anthony Perl:

Absolutely.

Angela Sedran:

So

Anthony Perl:

So.

Angela Sedran:

one tool that I would suggest people if

Angela Sedran:

I haven't done it already,

Anthony Perl:

it

Angela Sedran:

there is a tool website called

Anthony Perl:

a

Angela Sedran:

16 personalities dot com.

Anthony Perl:

16personalities.

Angela Sedran:

It is a personal self assessment based on the Myers Briggs

Angela Sedran:

model, which is a union model, which most even disc is all based on union models.

Anthony Perl:

models.

Angela Sedran:

a good insight into how we think.

Anthony Perl:

we think.

Angela Sedran:

And

Anthony Perl:

And,

Angela Sedran:

I don't like to use it to stereotype people, but when you

Angela Sedran:

actually start understanding a little bit more about how you think and you'll

Angela Sedran:

find they're, they're fairly accurate,

Anthony Perl:

accurate,

Angela Sedran:

where you can already start spotting where you might be the

Angela Sedran:

bottleneck in the business as well.

Anthony Perl:

as well.

Angela Sedran:

And that's another,

Anthony Perl:

that's

Angela Sedran:

another issue is if you are the bottleneck,

Anthony Perl:

the bottleneck,

Angela Sedran:

you'll soon start to see the tool and work out

Angela Sedran:

where you potentially are getting in the way of your business.

Anthony Perl:

way of your business.

Anthony Perl:

Fantastic.

Anthony Perl:

Angela, thank you so much.

Anthony Perl:

You've covered so much territory, uh, in this.

Anthony Perl:

I think there's, uh, people hopefully were sitting there with pen and

Anthony Perl:

paper and making lots of notes.

Anthony Perl:

We'll try and share a bunch of links in the, in the show notes for people.

Anthony Perl:

But, uh, once again, thank you so much for being part of the Biz Bytes program.

Anthony Perl:

It's really been, uh, a really special, uh, session both for this, uh, bonus

Anthony Perl:

bit of content and the main podcast itself, and I really appreciate it.

Angela Sedran:

Oh gosh, well thank you

Anthony Perl:

Well,

Angela Sedran:

I'm so honoured that you actually think that, and thank you for

Angela Sedran:

having me, and thank you for helping me fill my quota of 10, 000 words

Angela Sedran:

that I'm supposed to use up every day.

Anthony Perl:

use up every day.

Anthony Perl:

Well, we've definitely done that.

Angela Sedran:

Thank you.

Anthony Perl:

Thank you.

Anthony Perl:

Thanks a lot.

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About your host

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Anthony Perl

Anthony is an engagement specialist, building a great catalogue of podcasts of his own and helping others get it done for them. Anthony has spent more than 30 years building brands and growing audiences. His experience includes working in the media (2UE, 2GB, Channel Ten, among others) to working in the corporate and not-for-profit sectors, and for the last 13 years as a small business owner with CommTogether. The business covers branding to websites - all things strategic around marketing. Now podcasts have become central to his business, finding a niche in helping people publish their own, making it easy.