Episode 116
Unlock Your Personal Style And Build A Strong Personal Brands with Nina Fountain | Biz Bites
Transform fear into confidence! Learn to unlock your personal style and build a powerful brand, whether on stage or online. Practical tips from Nina Fountain on this Biz Bites episode..
You want to have the confidence to be able to be out there, but you also want the personal style to make sure you get that right. Also, you need to consider what happens if you are presenting online, getting your background right, and developing your personal style to show.
This episode contains more than just a high-level discussion, you will gain practical tips to make a real difference to your personal brand from a genuine Thought Leader in this space.
Don't miss this informative episode of Biz Bites! Subscribe to our channel for more valuable insights and business tips.
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Connect with Nina on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nina-fountain/
Check out her website - www.stylegorgeous.com
The Style Persona™️ quiz, found at https://stylegorgeous.com/quiz . BIZ BITES audience can use the code BIZBITES to receive the quiz as a gift.
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Transcript
From fear to confidence, how to unlock your personal style and
Speaker:build a strong personal brand.
Speaker:This is the subject of a really special episode of Biz Bites because we look at
Speaker:the elements that are really going to help you stand out now, be that being on
Speaker:stage and being a keynote speaker, or just being in front of a small group of people.
Speaker:You wanna have the confidence to be able to be out there, but
Speaker:you also want the personal style to make sure you get that right.
Speaker:But you also want to consider what happens if you are presenting, but you
Speaker:are here in a online situation, getting your background right, developing what
Speaker:is your personal style to show on there.
Speaker:We talk through all of those things and so much more.
Speaker:Some really practical tips.
Speaker:You don't wanna miss this very special episode of Biz Bites with Nina Fountain.
Speaker:Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Biz Bites and today's
Speaker:guest it's a little bit different from what we've talked about on the
Speaker:program before, but a really important aspect and idea for thought leaders
Speaker:to think about and we've got lots of avenues to talk about through there.
Speaker:And Nina, welcome to the program.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:It's great to be here.
Speaker:Now, as I always like to do.
Speaker:I'd love to introduce yourself into the program and tell us a little bit
Speaker:about you and about about what you do.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:My name's Nina.
Speaker:I am the executive stylist.
Speaker:I'm known as the executive stylist, and I'm also a management consultant.
Speaker:So I wear two hats, which means I know what it's like to be in the public eye,
Speaker:to give keynotes, to be on tv, and I know what it's like to be raising a visibility.
Speaker:So my clients are usually women who are looking to expand their influence.
Speaker:Through speaking, or they're gonna be in front of the media more.
Speaker:They're stepping into the C-suite.
Speaker:They're thinking about how they can take that visual message and make it
Speaker:aligned with what they want to, what they wanna say to the world in that moment.
Speaker:I think there's so much to unpack in all of this, and we're gonna go through
Speaker:lots of different things, but I want to hit you up first just, with a question
Speaker:without notice, but what would you say is the number one reason that women
Speaker:object to or put up a barrier, I suppose is a better term to actually being.
Speaker:The front person, and I think that probably extends beyond women, but
Speaker:I'm interested as to whether there's a difference between men and women as well.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Oh, it's such a good question because the thing I hear in my mind is people
Speaker:saying, oh, it's someone else's role, or, oh, I, I couldn't do that.
Speaker:Because I'm not overly qualified or I've never done it before.
Speaker:I don't know if I'd feel comfortable.
Speaker:And all of those, they're coming from different places and there's different
Speaker:reasons, but essentially it's a fear of standing out too much and doing something
Speaker:that might misalign them from the group.
Speaker:I think that's the main fear, is it's a safe place to be.
Speaker:When you're fitting in.
Speaker:You feel like you are not super visible.
Speaker:You are acceptable amongst the, your peers.
Speaker:And then when you stand out and you're visible and people are looking at you
Speaker:on stage for 40 minutes or they are really aware of your image because you
Speaker:are, you're public, then yeah it's, there's a fear piece that can kick in.
Speaker:Am I worth it?
Speaker:Do I belong?
Speaker:Am I looking, the part is, part of that, is part of that whole fear.
Speaker:So yeah.
Speaker:I'd love it if I could boil it down to one thing, but I'm gonna have to come back to
Speaker:you on that so we could perhaps we could say the one thing is the fear is the and.
Speaker:And I think that it's an interesting, a lot people often talk about the whole
Speaker:idea of the fear of public speaking.
Speaker:People would yes.
Speaker:That whole, that old joke that if it's a joke that they would rather
Speaker:be in the coffin than speaking about speaking at a funeral.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Which, I guess for me it's, that's always been a little bit bizarre because you
Speaker:speak for a living effectively, correct?
Speaker:Correct.
Speaker:I don't do, I speak for a living, but I also worked in the
Speaker:funeral industry for seven years.
Speaker:Ah.
Speaker:So I also know all about that side of things as well.
Speaker:So it really always seemed like a strange thing.
Speaker:But but I totally underst I, in saying that, I do totally understand
Speaker:that people have that that fear of doing that and it's not.
Speaker:And it's only when you realize that it's, when it's something that does come
Speaker:relatively easy to you that you realize.
Speaker:Sometimes that it's not so easy for other people.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I know I had a a, an event that was organized recently
Speaker:that was very last minute.
Speaker:In fact it was organized on the day and I spent the day organizing it and
Speaker:organizing all the speakers and I'd put my hand up to be the mc for the event.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:And we literally sat down in the event starting and I went.
Speaker:I've been so busy focused on everyone else.
Speaker:I have no idea what I'm supposed to say.
Speaker:And so I had nothing scripted at all.
Speaker:I had the people's names.
Speaker:That was literally all I had.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:And, but it was actually I actually got a buzz out of doing it.
Speaker:It was fun.
Speaker:In the end, you turned it in.
Speaker:It was so much fun.
Speaker:I was just going, I love that idea.
Speaker:And then people said to me, what, they loved what I said, but I
Speaker:couldn't completely recall everything that I'd said because yeah.
Speaker:It was so spontaneous and Yeah.
Speaker:But I did recognize that, having watched other people mc events and things that
Speaker:Yeah it doesn't always come easily.
Speaker:No, it doesn't.
Speaker:And I think back to my own journey of how do you then get to, how do
Speaker:you get to the point where you are on stage and you feel comfortable?
Speaker:And I think there were two really key turning points for me and.
Speaker:One was that I think initially I had heard this fear of public speaking thing, and
Speaker:I remember when I was at school, my first public speaking, we hope you're enjoying
Speaker:listening to the Biz Buys podcast.
Speaker:Have you ever thought about having your own podcast, one for your
Speaker:business where your brilliance is exposed to the rest of the world?
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Speaker:We even offer a service where I'll anchor the program for you.
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Speaker:in the show notes below.
Speaker:Now back to Biz bites.
Speaker:One was that I think initially I had heard this fear of public speaking
Speaker:thing, and I remember when I was.
Speaker:At school, my first public speaking opportunity.
Speaker:What, like at the age of nine or 10, I was a bit scared and I didn't feel like
Speaker:my cards were adequate for the occasion.
Speaker:And I think I carried that through into other opportunities.
Speaker:'cause I never, as far as I can recall, up until, my, probably my
Speaker:early thirties didn't feel okay.
Speaker:I really nailed that.
Speaker:I landed it, I feel really comfortable with what I said.
Speaker:And then someone told me that someone pointed out that the experience you
Speaker:have when you are nervous, your body's response, the parasympathetic response
Speaker:of, perhaps a bit of increased temperature and some sweat and your palms go clammy is
Speaker:exactly the same as when you are excited.
Speaker:And I realize that's so true and that gives you an
Speaker:opportunity to reframe it and to.
Speaker:To say to yourself, maybe there's a bit of nerves, but I'm excited about this.
Speaker:And to look more at the excitement element rather than thinking, this is just nerves.
Speaker:Look at me.
Speaker:I must be nervous.
Speaker:Instead you have the opportunity to say, look at me.
Speaker:I must be excited.
Speaker:And that actually really helped me to flip my mindset and to become excited about it.
Speaker:And then I think the other turning point was when I decided to.
Speaker:Let go of my preparation and just turn up like you did for that
Speaker:event and go with it and just at some point say, I've done my prep.
Speaker:Now it's time to be present.
Speaker:It's time to just be the show, this is what people have come for and
Speaker:I need to, I need all of my self and all of my mindset to be in this
Speaker:moment to be able to deliver on.
Speaker:On what they're expecting and not to, be caught in my prep and in my thoughts,
Speaker:and did I say this and did I say that?
Speaker:So that, that's actually really turned things around for me as well in terms of
Speaker:feeling comfortable because there comes a point when you can't prepare anymore.
Speaker:You just have to be there.
Speaker:Yeah I've, one of the things that I participated in a couple of years ago it
Speaker:was a talk by a guy called Todd Herman.
Speaker:I don't know if you've heard of Todd, I dunno the name.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:And he's written a book called The Alter Ego.
Speaker:And he's worked with a number of very high profile celebrities and sports
Speaker:people, and it's this whole idea that particularly I think Beyonce is the most
Speaker:well known, not necessarily that I don't know that Beyonce was his client but her
Speaker:idea was the most well known that she was, got very, got a lot of stage fright.
Speaker:And so she interesting.
Speaker:She invented this character called Sasha Fierce, and she.
Speaker:Was for her purposes.
Speaker:Sasha Fierce when she went on stage and not Beyonce.
Speaker:And I think she's since overcome all of that.
Speaker:So very interesting.
Speaker:And but I find that kind of interesting, that idea because it's a little bit
Speaker:it's a little bit almost, it's not quite the opposite to what you're saying.
Speaker:It's about in, in on one respect, it's going, okay, I've gotta
Speaker:pretend I'm somebody else.
Speaker:And I always found that a little bit challenging.
Speaker:Whereas the idea that you are talking about is really just being at one with
Speaker:yourself, but understanding that you can turn those emotions around and
Speaker:to think about it in a different way.
Speaker:I think there's something, this is so interesting, this is fascinating.
Speaker:I really wanna find out more about that now.
Speaker:And what it reminds me of, and I wonder if this is.
Speaker:A concept that's somewhere between the two is that concept of persona.
Speaker:Which is the, the small aspects that people get to observe about you in
Speaker:a particular situation that you can manage for your own message if you like.
Speaker:So your, at any one point in time.
Speaker:If you only have a couple of contacts with people, you see very little about them.
Speaker:You don't fully get the three dimensional version of them,
Speaker:you get the two dimensional version, you get specific aspects.
Speaker:And in marketing, branding we call that persona because
Speaker:it's not the full personality.
Speaker:It's not all the complicated aspects.
Speaker:It's the aspects that will help serve that purpose.
Speaker:I guess in, in a way, what we're doing when we're on stage or when we're
Speaker:speaking is being the persona, speaker or podcaster or leader or, it's really
Speaker:just one aspect of you, but it's when you do that to your fullest extent,
Speaker:when you serve in that moment by really stepping into that persona that actually.
Speaker:Gives people what they need from that moment as well.
Speaker:It's yeah I just wonder if.
Speaker:Persona could be another way to, to think about it.
Speaker:It is very much talking out loud, thinking out.
Speaker:Part of what Todd talks about as well, he gave a personal example
Speaker:where when he walks into the office, he puts on his glasses.
Speaker:Now he's, he actually doesn't need glasses.
Speaker:He just has a pair of glasses that then make him feel like,
Speaker:okay, this is work mode.
Speaker:Which equally when he takes the glasses off Oh, and steps into
Speaker:the home, he's now in, dad.
Speaker:Mode.
Speaker:And so he's no longer at work.
Speaker:And I understand that there's certain triggers that you have in different
Speaker:environments, and I know certainly, for me, I know I make a point of
Speaker:getting changed, so I work from home.
Speaker:Yeah, nice, lovely studio from home.
Speaker:But the the thing, and I've been doing that for a very long time.
Speaker:Probably, I think it's about 15 years now.
Speaker:And I've made it a point from the beginning of going, when
Speaker:I finish work, I get changed.
Speaker:Nice.
Speaker:It's just because that way it triggers and goes, no, there's no
Speaker:inclination to go back into the office.
Speaker:And it's also that different mindset, and I think it's I'm interested as
Speaker:well, when you're going on stage, you or you're in a you're in a situation
Speaker:where you're a thought leader and therefore you have to speak in front
Speaker:of people, whatever that looks like.
Speaker:Are there certain things that people need to, should be
Speaker:thinking about as triggers to.
Speaker:Lift themselves in a way that needs to project who they are and the circumstance.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:And let's come back to what you said around the glasses and changing your
Speaker:outfit for work versus home, because there's some research done around that.
Speaker:It's really fascinating.
Speaker:And I think to your point around if you're on stage, you're speaking.
Speaker:What are those triggers?
Speaker:What are the things that are going to enable you to step
Speaker:into that role and to deliver?
Speaker:And one of them is, that sense of power, that sense of personal
Speaker:affirmation and strength, which a lot of people can get from clothing.
Speaker:And I talk about their style as the second skin of a superhero that if you
Speaker:are wearing clothes that feel they're so connected with you and the, they're the
Speaker:best version of you and you're absolutely looking the part and you absolutely feel.
Speaker:Amazing.
Speaker:You look at yourself and you're like, that look so good.
Speaker:That's incredibly empowering and that, that is one of those triggers, if you like
Speaker:that people use to feel fantastic in that moment and to know that they can deliver.
Speaker:And then I think there's other more personal things.
Speaker:When I was it reminds me of when I was on live tv live National tv.
Speaker:It was a 10 minute interview.
Speaker:And I wore a pair of shoes that I had purchased with the first
Speaker:payment from a consulting gig.
Speaker:That was one of the best things I'd done in my career.
Speaker:And I had bought them as a celebration of success and a
Speaker:celebration of that achievement.
Speaker:And it was really fun to wear those on set when I was being interviewed on live tv.
Speaker:And just remember, this is.
Speaker:This is one of those, this is another great moment.
Speaker:This is another moment of what I've built in this business and my
Speaker:knowledge and what I can contribute.
Speaker:And so I think the, that's the other thing is that people sometimes have
Speaker:those personal reminders that are really meaningful of who they are and
Speaker:what they have to bring in that moment.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:So that's the answer the triggers.
Speaker:That, yeah, I love this as well.
Speaker:Connect, that connection as well between some, a successful business moment
Speaker:and something that you are carrying into a space where you are having to,
Speaker:embellish and talk more about that.
Speaker:It's a nice way of carrying that forward and what an appropriate
Speaker:place to, to wear them.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:And what you said about the glasses and then changing your clothes and that
Speaker:queuing in around the different contexts.
Speaker:There's some research done on, there's actually 600 research
Speaker:papers that talk about this concept of enclosed cognition, which is
Speaker:literally that the clothes we wear.
Speaker:Can affect our thinking style in terms of our productivity at focus or creativity.
Speaker:So that's what the studies were limited to was, does this particular coat
Speaker:that person is wearing make them more productive or does a coat that they're
Speaker:wearing make them more creative?
Speaker:And what was really interesting was that the coats were the same.
Speaker:In the two groups, they were just told that it was different.
Speaker:One was told that they were wearing a doctor's coat and the other group was
Speaker:told that they were wearing an art.
Speaker:An artist's coat, a painter's coat, and the people in the
Speaker:painter's group were more creative.
Speaker:The people in the doctor's coat were more focused and more productive.
Speaker:So these, the meanings that we attach to the clothes that we wear,
Speaker:literally they don't, they're not just.
Speaker:Conveniences, they actually go deeper in terms of affecting
Speaker:how our cognition works.
Speaker:They literally change your neuropsychology in a moment based on, on.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:On the meaning that you've associated it.
Speaker:And it's so true.
Speaker:I know back many years ago, and I worked in a corporate environment, and
Speaker:so it was the full suit and tie thing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I always felt restricted creatively that I just felt like just, the suit
Speaker:and tie does not work with someone who's in a creative space in the sort
Speaker:of marketing space that I was in.
Speaker:And I know when I started com together that it was like right from day one.
Speaker:It's a jeans policy.
Speaker:Nice.
Speaker:And it was like, and I threw away all the ties.
Speaker:Funnily enough, I had to buy a suit recently for some for a
Speaker:different purpose outside of work.
Speaker:And I was wearing and someone commented nice tie.
Speaker:And I said, it's the first time I've put on a tie in 15 years.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It was ridiculous.
Speaker:Who am I, what am I in this moment?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's, but it is interesting how the, how those things can
Speaker:make a real difference to.
Speaker:The way we think and the way we are in a moment.
Speaker:And I guess, how important is it in terms of getting, we're focused on
Speaker:the idea of just putting something on that's associated right.
Speaker:But in terms of the image that you project when you are in a position of
Speaker:leadership, because I think we've had this traditional thing where it's suit
Speaker:and tie in the equivalent thereof for a.
Speaker:Th that's shifted in recent times.
Speaker:I've noticed.
Speaker:I think for me the most bizarre thing was when Covid, so as I mentioned, I've worked
Speaker:from home for a long time, so being online and doing things online was not new to me.
Speaker:But I recognized when COVID came and we had lockdowns that
Speaker:people started working online.
Speaker:And suddenly you went from having conversations with people who were.
Speaker:Wearing a suit and tie in the office.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And now just because they were at home, they were in like t-shirt and kids
Speaker:running around and dogs everywhere and all that sort of stuff was happening.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And then it the barriers started coming up again when people started realizing it.
Speaker:But I think this blend of what what people feel is the right thing and spending
Speaker:some time on the image that they project.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It is really important and.
Speaker:I think it's one of those things where people may or may not have
Speaker:their own stories and other people's stories to draw on as they form
Speaker:their own impression around this.
Speaker:And I think it's also not simple in that each person's work context and
Speaker:their personality and what's important to them are gonna be quite different.
Speaker:How that leader is and what they're needing to convey is
Speaker:going to change and shift across.
Speaker:As many, as many people as you have in the room.
Speaker:There's gonna be different scenarios.
Speaker:So it means there isn't a great blanket rule at the same time.
Speaker:I think what's happened is that we haven't had, because it's a subtle visual
Speaker:language that we're talking about, like manners or accent or color, for example.
Speaker:These are things that are, they're there, they're part of the experience.
Speaker:You don't necessarily bring them to the surface and actually
Speaker:have a conversation about them.
Speaker:So there isn't a collective conversation about what's going on here.
Speaker:And it may be for that reason, people aren't getting shoulder tapped by their.
Speaker:By their boss because they don't wanna be seen as overstepping the
Speaker:mark and they, so they're, it's like, how do we talk about this?
Speaker:How do we talk about this blurring of the lines?
Speaker:And my take on it is that what I'm seeing is a lot of people are,
Speaker:if you are like abdicating their right to manage their message.
Speaker:By not looking the part.
Speaker:And that makes it hard for people to easily do business with them
Speaker:in whatever context they are.
Speaker:So for example, I had someone through a video series communicate
Speaker:about how she could help me make a million dollars through speaking.
Speaker:And meanwhile, she was dressed.
Speaker:Really shabby, I've gotta say sweatshirt, t-shirt hair pulled back, no, no
Speaker:effort to her appearance at all.
Speaker:And also the setting was in her kitchen where you could literally
Speaker:see the toaster as well as the thing that she was using to present.
Speaker:And you thought, if you don't respect this environment, then
Speaker:what respect do you have for this opportunity that you are presenting?
Speaker:And.
Speaker:Really, do you actually have the ability to help me make a
Speaker:million dollars through speaking?
Speaker:Because I've just got questions now and it's certainly not that
Speaker:I could get a clear answer.
Speaker:It's just the fact that it raises a question that puts blocks
Speaker:in people's way to want to do business, and I feel like there.
Speaker:That's the thing that a lot of people aren't realizing, but I get to hear the
Speaker:stories and one of them was a lady who was a recruitment agent and had sent
Speaker:an executive along the executive sales through, gets to the third interview,
Speaker:looks really professional in the first two, but the third one's online.
Speaker:The others have been in person, turns up wearing a t-shirt with a
Speaker:logo on it and she's interviewing for an executive position and.
Speaker:She ended up getting the job, but the recruitment agent said that
Speaker:the company came back to her and said what was with her outfit.
Speaker:And then the recruitment agent also said, you can guarantee that they
Speaker:reduced her salary because of how she presented in that last interview.
Speaker:And, all subtle, all behind doors, no one's gonna talk about it.
Speaker:But these are the kinds of things that are happening when people.
Speaker:Don't make it easy to, for the door to open.
Speaker:It is so fascinating.
Speaker:And I think it's, we've lived in different, in such different times now.
Speaker:I remember, you talk about how people present themselves.
Speaker:It really wasn't that long ago that tattoos were not a thing
Speaker:that were particularly common.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And now of course we've got the full sleeves and things that
Speaker:people have, but I remember a time.
Speaker:When people would co actively cover it up.
Speaker:So if they had the sleeve, they would Yeah.
Speaker:Wear the one sleeve.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:I was in that era.
Speaker:I remember those.
Speaker:I'm sorry.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And look, and I remember meeting someone and I'd known him for a number
Speaker:of years and seen him off and on.
Speaker:And I happened to see him one day, and I think it was, he was
Speaker:wearing short sleeves or something.
Speaker:He was getting ready to leave work, whatever it was.
Speaker:And I was like, oh my God.
Speaker:I didn't realize, not that it was a big deal, but I just, I had no idea.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And because he was actively.
Speaker:Covering it up.
Speaker:Covering it up, which you wouldn't do anymore.
Speaker:That's just not and but it's interesting how perceptions have changed.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I'm wondering as well, I remember hearing many years ago that when you're
Speaker:presenting particularly if you're doing it on camera, but presenting in
Speaker:general, don't wear a hat and don't wear glasses because it's putting
Speaker:a mask or a barrier between people.
Speaker:I happily do plenty of times when I don't have the hat on.
Speaker:I haven't got a lot of hair.
Speaker:So that's a different, that's a different layer and quite frankly, love it.
Speaker:I can take the glasses off, but I won't be able to see you very well.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And I, contacts have never been a good thing for me, so I just, it is
Speaker:what it is, but I'm just interested as to whether that actually is a
Speaker:thing or that's just a, an old detail.
Speaker:And have we shifted much like the tattoos, have we shifted
Speaker:in, in the way that we think?
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:I think we have shifted.
Speaker:And for you it's a really, it's a creative.
Speaker:It comes across as creative, which is so in line with your brand.
Speaker:And that's I think, where society as a whole has shifted is that we are much more
Speaker:pluralistic, we're much more every person is an individual and every business is
Speaker:unique and every situation is different.
Speaker:So we're much more tolerant of lots of different ways of doing things
Speaker:to, yeah, to look the part or to.
Speaker:Be the person that you are.
Speaker:And at the same time, what hasn't changed is our really primal needs
Speaker:for for people to, do what they say they're going to do, to be the person
Speaker:that you think they are to deliver when you ask them to do something.
Speaker:And these more basic kind of expectations of trust and consistency and.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Belonging, even.
Speaker:These are all things that, that style speaks into.
Speaker:So it's walking a fine line.
Speaker:People do need to walk a bit of a fine line there in terms of putting
Speaker:distance between you with glasses and with a hat, I've, I think now
Speaker:there's so much more tolerance of.
Speaker:Like creativity, especially with someone like you it's absolutely
Speaker:aligned with your brand and who you are.
Speaker:So it totally makes sense, yeah, it just makes sense.
Speaker:Can you tell my mother that she hates the hat by
Speaker:send the rest of my family?
Speaker:I have no problem with her, but mom, if you're watching, I'm sorry, I'm
Speaker:still wearing hat and it looks great.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, it's a good question.
Speaker:But it is an interesting thing though about the question of how much time
Speaker:people spend thinking about their brand.
Speaker:'cause you spend a lot of time, if you go, if you're in that situation
Speaker:where you're going to be speaking and whether it is a keynote situation or
Speaker:whether it's just in front of your team or a small group, whatever that is.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:How much time do people actually spend thinking about their own personal
Speaker:brand and the way they're preventing themselves and what that actually means.
Speaker:And again, whether there's a. A difference between the way men
Speaker:and women think in that regard.
Speaker:And do you know my answer to that is you make one decision that
Speaker:makes all of the decisions for you.
Speaker:And really when you do something like a styling experience with
Speaker:someone like me where we're aligning.
Speaker:Brand and style.
Speaker:We're aligning that person's style with their personality so that it feels
Speaker:very, connected to who they are and they absolutely feel fantastic in it.
Speaker:Then you've got your outfits together, you have your pictures on your
Speaker:phone, so in the morning you can just check what's on your calendar,
Speaker:check what the weather is and decide.
Speaker:Which outfit you're gonna wear.
Speaker:It takes you a minute to choose what to wear rather than having
Speaker:to, think about it every day.
Speaker:So I feel like, yeah, it's one of those things that falls into just
Speaker:get it done right at the beginning and then have a clear direction.
Speaker:It's like that's the strategy and then the implementation follows much more easily.
Speaker:I love that it's are very basic tips for people, isn't it?
Speaker:To think about it and to then literally have that and go well, depending on
Speaker:the kind of people that you are talking to at that day or not talking to.
Speaker:Yeah, I know.
Speaker:I certainly have a, the odd day where I've got rather zero meetings or the
Speaker:meetings are just internal so I can don't have to wear a shirt, I can wear
Speaker:a polo shirt instead, for example.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And those little things can make a bit of a difference as to how you.
Speaker:Think in how you want to be and show up during that day and
Speaker:what you're trying to get done.
Speaker:Totally.
Speaker:Because it's not just about presenting, it's about what
Speaker:you wanna get done in that day.
Speaker:It's absolutely about what you wanna get done and what kind of flow you want to
Speaker:be, and whether you want to be productive.
Speaker:I'll have my creative days.
Speaker:Sometimes a Saturday is a creative day for me where I know I'm not gonna have
Speaker:any expectations to meet with people.
Speaker:And actually that's flipping more to me Monday now because
Speaker:I'm working more in the us.
Speaker:And people don't book meetings on Sunday, their time.
Speaker:So I've got this whole day, and that's a day when I turn up in jeans, a
Speaker:t-shirt, and I'm still work focused, but I'm not, as, I'm working, sorry,
Speaker:but I'm not as focused in that moment.
Speaker:I'm looking more for those creative ideas, that strategic thinking, the,
Speaker:the kind of information gathering is what I'll do on those days.
Speaker:Now before we move away from the visual brand elements, there's one thing
Speaker:that I wanted to point out to people that you and I discussed actually
Speaker:when we first met a little bit.
Speaker:And I just wanna talk about the surrounds because I think one of the
Speaker:things that's important is that many people today are presenting online.
Speaker:So what you have in your background is also important.
Speaker:The tendency has been to opt for a virtual background for many people.
Speaker:And I personally, I used it for a while and.
Speaker:I get it.
Speaker:Sometimes you're not in a situation where you can.
Speaker:Particularly tidy up what's behind you, and you think do I really wanna
Speaker:show all of this to, to the world?
Speaker:And you tend to think, oh, I'll have a nice kind some kind of visual thing.
Speaker:Sometimes it shows a fake office or a fake setting.
Speaker:I prefer it when it, when, if you're going to use it, you see something
Speaker:where it's a bit more on brand.
Speaker:So you'll, you might have the logo in the corner and just some
Speaker:color in there, but even then it's not as good as having something.
Speaker:That's real.
Speaker:And it's actually surprisingly easy.
Speaker:And you've got a little secret behind you to make that look good.
Speaker:And it doesn't, it didn't take very much, did it?
Speaker:It didn't take very much.
Speaker:And in fact, I can give you some insights.
Speaker:So this is a it's a wooden divider, if you like.
Speaker:It's a wooden fence.
Speaker:So this is the rest of my office over here is there's a, there's my.
Speaker:My bookshelf and the rest of my house is over there, so I won't show you too much.
Speaker:But for me, that works beautifully in that I am in my workspace.
Speaker:I'm also not seeing everything else behind me.
Speaker:So I'm not distracted by my house.
Speaker:I can just be in my office and thinking and being focused here.
Speaker:And then, yeah, I think the other thing that makes it work is that it's not fake.
Speaker:And people.
Speaker:Feel like they're just focused on the, on, the person that's
Speaker:appearing in front of them.
Speaker:Yeah, I think like you've done a great job where you've given some hints of what
Speaker:you do with a, with some words behind you.
Speaker:At the same time it's not distracting.
Speaker:So there's an element of it feeling homely, like you've got some home
Speaker:elements, but they're also not dominating the whole scene and it doesn't.
Speaker:The eye's not too distracted.
Speaker:And that's one thing I've seen, like you and I could talk about this for
Speaker:so long, but I've seen people, they fill the back of their space with,
Speaker:a whiskey bottle trophy a picture of them on holidays and you name it.
Speaker:There's all kinds of things there.
Speaker:And where's the mind going when.
Speaker:Your, where's that per that conversational partner's mind going?
Speaker:They're trying to work out what all those things are because it looks like you've
Speaker:made them important to the conversation.
Speaker:You've brought them into the conversation.
Speaker:So now they're trying to add that to what they're thinking about with you
Speaker:and, and join the dots there and.
Speaker:I just don't think that's smart business, to be honest.
Speaker:No, and I think the point is as well that you can make it, what you've
Speaker:done is it doesn't cost very much.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:It's very simple to get, it doesn't take up much space.
Speaker:You can easily fold it away when you're not Yes.
Speaker:In business mode or need the extra space for whatever reason.
Speaker:But when it comes to, okay, I've gotta set things up and rather than, and I,
Speaker:look, I've done the thing where I've put a green screen on the back of the
Speaker:chair and try and cover those and I.
Speaker:Seeing people do various versions of that if you can do something like
Speaker:that it's a much easier way of doing it and looking smart in the process.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And actually centering the focus on the person rather than being
Speaker:distracted by, because I think that's what people forget is that I.
Speaker:The virtual backgrounds are often very distracting.
Speaker:Yeah, they are.
Speaker:And you can see the movement, we all, we, no, none of us keeps dead still,
Speaker:when we're talking and, we exaggerate it.
Speaker:Now we move our heads and we, we move our arms and things and how many
Speaker:times do you see that visual barrier breaking around the person and you
Speaker:go, that's a virtual background.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it just distracts you from what you're talking about.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:Another really important tip is what you are managing
Speaker:really well, which is lighting.
Speaker:And so here I have natural light and I also have a light just to
Speaker:my left that helps to supplement that so I'm not half in shadow.
Speaker:And I think people are not always thinking about their lighting, but it's important,
Speaker:especially if they are wearing glasses.
Speaker:So again, you've managed that like really nicely.
Speaker:There's no reflection on your glasses.
Speaker:And then yeah the other.
Speaker:Thing is that faces can easily be hidden.
Speaker:They're often a lot darker than they need to be.
Speaker:So the face doesn't show as the most important thing.
Speaker:And yeah, we've just got to get a few things right.
Speaker:This is, this little square is how people are meeting us these days, right?
Speaker:So absolutely.
Speaker:You've just gotta manage that image that's.
Speaker:It's more than and it's not a big investment.
Speaker:I think that's the intriguing thing is that, I know for example, when I set
Speaker:this studio up that yes, I've got a few lights that are sitting in the background.
Speaker:But that's just more for background lighting.
Speaker:But I've got one key light.
Speaker:That is just in front of me there.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Nice.
Speaker:And it was not a big investment, I think it was.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:$150, something like that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And but it makes the world of difference.
Speaker:The world of, because it also means that the, it also means that the, what the
Speaker:camera is doing a lot less work in trying to compensate for different lighting.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I think that's an important thing to remember is that, the
Speaker:equipment that you've got, the camera.
Speaker:Can only do so much.
Speaker:And can I add one other thing, and I think, and you and I are demonstrating how
Speaker:to do it, is that we talked before about what creates distance between people.
Speaker:One of the things that's creating distance is that people are not So if, yeah.
Speaker:Do we do it from the audience perspective or from the speaker's perspective?
Speaker:So what speakers are doing is they're not always revealing much
Speaker:of themselves because they're hiding at the bottom of the screen, and for
Speaker:whatever reason it might be because they don't feel comfortable with
Speaker:what they're wearing on the day.
Speaker:That doesn't feel screen appropriate, but that means that two thirds of the
Speaker:real estate is just on the background and this, but this, the more someone
Speaker:can see, the more it feels like they're.
Speaker:They're with you in person.
Speaker:Obviously they're not, but the more they can understand of you, the more
Speaker:information, the better, basically.
Speaker:And it just visually looks good to break it up into thirds.
Speaker:So to have the eyes at around two thirds of the screen height.
Speaker:So it's no, there's no exact rule, but that's gonna be a
Speaker:more visually appealing look.
Speaker:Yeah, that's, yeah, the amount of times, I think we've all been in these group
Speaker:zooms and you look around and people, and I've been, look, I was in a I was
Speaker:actually a one-on-one meeting with someone today, and they were it was almost
Speaker:as if you can picture this, I was, I.
Speaker:If I was standing up and he was in his lounge chair and because there was that
Speaker:kind of a distance, he was lower down.
Speaker:He was slouching back and I can't even replicate that because the
Speaker:chair won't go lower here from the way I've got it set up.
Speaker:But it's, and I think these are things that people forget
Speaker:that there are the visuals.
Speaker:That you create are really important because you don't, as I, we talked about
Speaker:the hat and glasses, but you don't want barriers that are between people being
Speaker:able to relate to you and to Exactly.
Speaker:To, to feel as though they're there and.
Speaker:I think one of the challenges is and I, I remember a couple of years ago, and
Speaker:I know you are based in New Zealand, so I dunno whether you saw this story,
Speaker:but it was probably about five or six years ago now that Carl Stefano, who
Speaker:hosted the Today Show in Australia, yeah.
Speaker:Wore the same suit for 12 months every single day.
Speaker:Nobody noticed.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Yet, his co-host at the time was Lisa Wilkinson, who was getting criticized
Speaker:constantly if she would even consider wearing the same outfit two days in a row.
Speaker:And people were critical.
Speaker:Oh, you wore this didn't like this color, or didn't like
Speaker:this cut, or whatever it was.
Speaker:I. And nobody noticed at all what he was doing.
Speaker:And he literally, he nobody even in, I don't think anyone in the Today Show
Speaker:actually particularly noticed either.
Speaker:And he made a thing of it and he did it very deliberately.
Speaker:And it was only after 12 months that he, revealed it and
Speaker:said, he said, the game's up.
Speaker:I've been wearing the games up.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:And it's, and I think it's fascinating that, because one of the things
Speaker:that I've found in doing, podcasts for other people and having lots
Speaker:of guests come on my program I'd have to say that I haven't done the
Speaker:exact statistics, but I would say I.
Speaker:For the majority of people that object to being on video are women.
Speaker:There's a feeling that, oh, I've gotta do the hair and the makeup and I've
Speaker:gotta have clothes on and things.
Speaker:Men don't seem to care as much.
Speaker:But then I think we've also seen a little bit of a turn where there, there
Speaker:definitely is men putting more into their appearance and maybe women being
Speaker:a little bit more relaxed as well.
Speaker:I'm not sure.
Speaker:But it is an interesting psyche that, that.
Speaker:We don't seem to focus as much on the men visually as we do.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's true.
Speaker:And men are more likely to say to me, look, I just don't care.
Speaker:Is there different colors of T-shirts?
Speaker:I didn't know, someone had someone tell me that it's white or black.
Speaker:That's it, isn't it?
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:Is that the response for most of them?
Speaker:But then the same person, interestingly, went on to say.
Speaker:He runs three day events that he wears blue on the first day, yellow
Speaker:on the second day, yellow on the last day, pink on the second day.
Speaker:So he actually and he had reasons for doing that.
Speaker:So it was interesting in that it was a foot in both camps, like realizing
Speaker:that fashion's not going to be a huge deal in the day, but also realizing
Speaker:it does communicate something, it does send a message and yeah, I think.
Speaker:Uh, there are genetic differences, social differences between the two,
Speaker:between men and women on the research that's been done on men and women.
Speaker:And yeah.
Speaker:And it comes down to things like color sensitivity and there's a
Speaker:fascinating piece of research done by NASA on the power of color, where
Speaker:they were looking at how could they use color to improve performance.
Speaker:And so they looked at the effect of color on men and women.
Speaker:And women were much more affected by color and it made a much bigger difference
Speaker:to their mood and to their yeah.
Speaker:The way they went about their day.
Speaker:So yeah.
Speaker:So I think if we just look at men and women, that's.
Speaker:That's the research that we've got.
Speaker:There does seem to be some pretty clear differences.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:We are talking about backgrounds and things and it, reminds me
Speaker:of certainly through a phase.
Speaker:I think it's probably through the eighties particularly, that if you looked at
Speaker:every newsroom whatever country you're in, the background was a different shade
Speaker:of blue because blue was seen as the.
Speaker:Kind of trusted color.
Speaker:It's gravitated around.
Speaker:There's people who have introduced color spots and things now, and you
Speaker:get black and you get blue and you get red and all sorts of different things.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But, so it's interesting that they, even that's moved.
Speaker:But I guess what I wanted to ask you and I, we could, I.
Speaker:Talk for hours, but we've gotta wrap up shortly, but I just wanted
Speaker:to ask you about this whole idea of your building your own brand.
Speaker:And, you talked about before about okay, you have a selection
Speaker:of photos and depending on what you've got on in the day but how do
Speaker:you actually work out that piece?
Speaker:How do you actually find what is.
Speaker:Going to be your brand and what is going to work for, what you're trying
Speaker:to project and who you actually are as a personality, because it
Speaker:doesn't always come easily to people.
Speaker:It doesn't.
Speaker:It doesn't.
Speaker:So I've made a science of this, if you like.
Speaker:I think that's probably the best way of saying it.
Speaker:I've got an applied science degree, so I looked at style and I'm an artist,
Speaker:so I've brought the two together and.
Speaker:I looked at style through the lens of what really makes this work specifically
Speaker:for me, because it was my own journey before I could help anyone else.
Speaker:And there are so I've distilled it down to a few really useful tools and.
Speaker:One of those is understanding your style persona, your connection between
Speaker:your personality, specifically on how open-minded, how agreeable, how
Speaker:conscientious and how extroverted you are.
Speaker:So there are connections there between those personality aspects and the type of.
Speaker:Fashion that you are going to feel fantastic in and in
Speaker:terms of comfort and colors and structure and all of these things.
Speaker:And there's subtle cues to other people about who you are as well.
Speaker:Like we know the difference between someone who's confidently carrying
Speaker:and looking amazing in a bold print suit to someone who's looking.
Speaker:Incredible.
Speaker:And just as confident and just as amazing in, like a sheer
Speaker:white silk outfit or something.
Speaker:Like we know that there's different personalities behind those two different
Speaker:outfits, so I've distilled all of that down into the style persona system.
Speaker:I'll include the.
Speaker:The link so people can get it as your gift with a code.
Speaker:And they can get it as a gift from us and it'll be there as a, as
Speaker:something they can get that direction.
Speaker:Once you get that direction, you are down to one of 12 personas and that's,
Speaker:that's for a lot of people, that's a really great level of clarity.
Speaker:You can go obviously a lot.
Speaker:More individualized.
Speaker:And people who are very creative, who are very public, who are very aware of
Speaker:fashion will want to do that next level.
Speaker:And that's something, we look at style keywords, we look at
Speaker:influencers, we look at icons.
Speaker:We've got a whole, mood board.
Speaker:We, there's a whole bunch of things we do there to develop
Speaker:this style even further from that.
Speaker:And then there's really two other key.
Speaker:Pieces, and that is how do you dress your figure to look fantastic.
Speaker:So I call that my faultless figure body shape strategies.
Speaker:And that's where I've simplified all of those complex decisions around hem lines
Speaker:and neck lines and shapes and silhouettes, down to some really simple decisions.
Speaker:And then it's about your color alignment.
Speaker:So for example, some people look terrible in orange.
Speaker:And just shouldn't go near it.
Speaker:And others look terrible in black, and it just absolutely washes them out.
Speaker:So how do you know that it's about your skin tone, your
Speaker:hair tone, and your eye color?
Speaker:So once, once you have clarity around those colors, then you can really
Speaker:bring, even if you're doing a branding piece, like you're deciding what your
Speaker:logo should look like, the logo that you're gonna be right next to, it's
Speaker:best if that's aligned with you because.
Speaker:That whole thing looks coherent and there's a nice congruence there
Speaker:that, that doesn't jar the eye.
Speaker:So that, that's when you're getting really smart.
Speaker:But the, but those are the essential pieces.
Speaker:A lot of stylists will look at the body shape piece, but they don't go into.
Speaker:Who are you as a person and what's your, what are you turning up to?
Speaker:Do you know what's the value that you bring to a situation and
Speaker:how can we align that with you?
Speaker:So yeah, I call that my purpose led presence method, because it's being
Speaker:present, connecting with that person's purpose, what they're here to do and,
Speaker:then the styling kind of comes from there.
Speaker:I love all of that, and as you said, we're gonna include lots of details in
Speaker:the show notes so people will be able to get a hold of all of that information.
Speaker:It's such an important area and one that we don't generally discuss all that much.
Speaker:So I've loved all of the tips and things that people have that people
Speaker:will get from listening to this.
Speaker:Just to wrap things up I always ask.
Speaker:My guest this question, what's the aha moment that people have when they come to
Speaker:work with you that you wish more people knew they were going to have in advance?
Speaker:Oh, thank you for that question.
Speaker:I actually find it quite moving to respond to it because what I find is
Speaker:that there's a huge amount of judgment.
Speaker:So you talked about those women not feeling comfortable on camera.
Speaker:There's the fashion world thanks to magazines and high fashion and all that
Speaker:incredible, creative, gorgeous stuff.
Speaker:Also comes with some baggage around people feeling that they're
Speaker:less than and judgments that they're adopting on themselves.
Speaker:So they expect that a stylist is going to do the same.
Speaker:They often think I'm, I'm putting myself on the line here.
Speaker:And they're expecting some extreme makeover type experience where
Speaker:they'll be dressed down and told, you shouldn't be wearing this,
Speaker:you shouldn't be wearing that.
Speaker:And comments on their body shape and things, and they're already
Speaker:being hard enough on themselves.
Speaker:Whereas in fact, the aha is that by stepping into who they are.
Speaker:Giving themselves looks, that feel fantastic.
Speaker:It's actually an act of self-care.
Speaker:It's actually and I'm worth it.
Speaker:And I, I'm going to feel fantastic and I wanna feel fantastic and that's
Speaker:available to me and I'm doing it.
Speaker:So that's a, that's where my clients.
Speaker:Get to before they start working with me is they realize, oh, it's, it's not
Speaker:actually gonna be a judgmental experience.
Speaker:It's gonna be something where I feel like I've been affirmed and I'm, it's a safe
Speaker:space and it's actually a lot more fun.
Speaker:And this is why I sometimes have clients just look at me with a tear
Speaker:in their eye and say, thank you.
Speaker:Because it's really unlocked a whole.
Speaker:Area of life that they previously had a lot of hangups about.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Such an important thing.
Speaker:And I love that.
Speaker:It's a great way to end things because I think it, it is such an important message.
Speaker:And if feel comfortable in who you are.
Speaker:And and I think that extends to the brand that you're projecting in terms of.
Speaker:Feeling comfortable.
Speaker:What we talked about right in the beginning where we talked about fear.
Speaker:And I think that if you're comfortable in not just how you present yourself,
Speaker:but you're comfortable in your stories and your expertise, then that fear
Speaker:will disappear and you can turn it around, as you said, and have fun.
Speaker:Yeah, with it.
Speaker:And turn that, turn the thing around.
Speaker:Fantastic.
Speaker:Insights.
Speaker:Thank you so much for being part of the FIGHT program.
Speaker:Such a pleasure.
Speaker:Thanks.
Speaker:And again, we'll remind everyone that all the information on how to get in
Speaker:touch with Nina and to download some of her material will be in the show notes.
Speaker:Thank you everyone for joining us, and we look forward to your
Speaker:company next time on Biz Bites.
Speaker:Hey, thanks for listening to Biz Bites.
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