Episode 108
Building powerful brands, personal, and business success with Andrew Ford | Biz Bites episode
Tired of chasing clients? In this Biz Bites episode, marketing expert Andrew Ford reveals how to transform yourself into a magnetic brand. Learn how to overcome imposter syndrome, build a loyal community, and simplify your marketing with authentic, personalized content. Andrew also shares his journey from corporate escapee to successful entrepreneur and how you can do the same.
Don't miss this episode! Listen now and subscribe to the Biz Bites YouTube channel for more marketing inspiration.
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Connect with Andrew on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-jeremy-ford/
Check out his website: www.socialstar.com.au
Check out their special offer: Get a discount on Andrew's recent book with a promo code which they can share with you, visit his website: https://www.andrewford.com.au/ _________________________________________________
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Transcript
Building powerful brands, personal, and business success
Speaker:with my guest, Andrew Ford.
Speaker:Andrew is a marketing expert and he's going to deliver some essential
Speaker:strategies for building compelling personal and business brands.
Speaker:You're going to get some real insights into how to transform
Speaker:your professional identity.
Speaker:from a simple job description to a powerful, authentic narrative
Speaker:that attracts quality clients.
Speaker:You're going to learn about overcoming professional challenges like practical
Speaker:advice for conquering imposter syndrome.
Speaker:And there's also going to be lots of strategic marketing
Speaker:advice for professionals.
Speaker:With information that is going to suit people just like you.
Speaker:Building trust and community.
Speaker:It's a critical importance these days for creating personal connections and
Speaker:developing a brand that truly resonates with your values and unique offerings.
Speaker:Andrew has a lot of insights on this subject and so much more, including.
Speaker:Strategies from his book, creating a powerful business.
Speaker:So you don't want to miss this episode because there, that is one heck of a
Speaker:comprehensive guide for professionals looking to escape corporate constraints
Speaker:and build a business that aligns with their lifestyle and passion.
Speaker:So if that sounds like you, then you better stay tuned for this really
Speaker:important episode of Biz Bites.
Speaker:Because we are here for those of you that are business leaders, you're an
Speaker:entrepreneur, you're a seasonal, seasoned professional service business leader.
Speaker:You're seeking to reinvent your brand, gain more people coming towards you.
Speaker:Then this is an episode just for you.
Speaker:Now let's get into Biz Bites.
Speaker:Well, hello everyone.
Speaker:Welcome to another episode of Biz Bites.
Speaker:And I can't wait to have this discussion today because Andrew Ford and I've
Speaker:got to know each other a little bit over the past, maybe 12 months or so.
Speaker:But this is an opportunity for us to delve a little bit deeper into an area that
Speaker:we're both passionate about in brand.
Speaker:So I'm no.
Speaker:people will get lots of value out of it.
Speaker:So first of all, Andrew, welcome to the program.
Speaker:Thanks for having me.
Speaker:I'm glad to be on your podcast as someone who is the podcast extraordinaire.
Speaker:It's a, it's a real privilege and honor.
Speaker:Ah, absolute pleasure to have you on.
Speaker:And I think whilst I know plenty about you, let's try and explain
Speaker:a little bit to the listeners.
Speaker:So do you want to do a bit of an introduction to everyone as to
Speaker:who you are and what you're about?
Speaker:Yeah, sure.
Speaker:So Andrew Ford I run a business called Social Star, which you'll see over there.
Speaker:And in that business, we are a marketing agency essentially, but what we specialize
Speaker:in is helping information professionals.
Speaker:So people who have a lot of knowledge, smart people who are in
Speaker:the business of their knowledge.
Speaker:So thinking in accountants, lawyers, doctors, consultants all of those,
Speaker:you know, IT professionals, those sort of people, we help them do
Speaker:marketing via their personal brand.
Speaker:And because we know that people who are buying those services don't want to be
Speaker:spammed with digital marketing and ads.
Speaker:What they want to know is they're seeking these professionals, but they just need
Speaker:a way to find them and to understand clearly what they do and what their
Speaker:speciality is and how to work with them.
Speaker:But The funny thing is, is even though these people are really smart, they
Speaker:generally don't have that information available or understand the process.
Speaker:So we develop that for them and put it out in a way that they feel is very
Speaker:palatable to their professional standards.
Speaker:And that's really important to them is that they know we work with other, you
Speaker:know, high level people and that we're, you know, high quality, low volume
Speaker:content and we really respect their brand.
Speaker:It's such an important thing and I think in this day and age it's
Speaker:so important to establish that personal brand, but to understand
Speaker:who you are and what you're about.
Speaker:It's, it sounds so fundamental, but it's amazing how often people just
Speaker:don't think about it or don't even know.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Necessarily what they are and what they're about.
Speaker:Yeah, a hundred percent.
Speaker:I, I mean, I literally had a meeting today with a, a referred client and
Speaker:she's got 30 years in the IT industry.
Speaker:She's a specialist in ai, and you think she'll be hot property.
Speaker:However, when you look at her profile.
Speaker:I can't really can't, I can see that she does that stuff, but I don't
Speaker:know why I would use her services.
Speaker:It's not specific, it's not hyper niche as we call it.
Speaker:I don't think it's aimed at a particular market.
Speaker:She was a little bit unclear, you know, who the market
Speaker:she wanted to work with was.
Speaker:And that's extremely common.
Speaker:You know another meeting earlier today with an accountant who wants to work
Speaker:in marketing, and she's a bit lost in terms of what her direction is.
Speaker:So, so even though they're very smart people, it's very difficult to see
Speaker:yourself as other people see you.
Speaker:So that's number one.
Speaker:And then often people they need someone else to ask them good questions and
Speaker:someone who's used to dealing with people in their profession who can guide them a
Speaker:little bit on what works and what doesn't.
Speaker:And so, you know, I don't call myself a coach where I ask you
Speaker:questions and you tell me the answer.
Speaker:I'm more a consultant where you give me some information and I'll help you.
Speaker:plan a path.
Speaker:And so, you know, doing that for a long period of time, we just gather
Speaker:a body of knowledge and experience.
Speaker:We're doing this 15 years.
Speaker:So, you know, quite a while.
Speaker:It's, it's really interesting when you start talking to people about
Speaker:some of these things and they haven't ever thought about it.
Speaker:A lot of them haven't thought about why they do what they do and hence the feeling
Speaker:sometimes of getting a bit lost, right?
Speaker:Oh, 100%.
Speaker:And I said to, you know, one today, she had a bit of a laugh.
Speaker:I'm like, it's, you know, personal branding.
Speaker:Trying to do it for yourself is like cutting your own hair.
Speaker:It's like, you know, it's, it's, it's, you know, you probably could do it
Speaker:but it's probably unwise to do it.
Speaker:It's something that, you know, it's You know, having a and
Speaker:I've got a coach as well.
Speaker:I mentioned to this person, I said, I've got a, I've got a coach who helps me
Speaker:with my brand in my company because, you know, I can't see myself as others do.
Speaker:We get too stuck in our head and our own thoughts and imposter syndrome
Speaker:comes out and, you know, we question decisions and we just need someone to do
Speaker:it and have a, you know, a good process.
Speaker:Because the truth is that yeah.
Speaker:Any professional service, and I work with surgeons and people like that, who you
Speaker:think would constantly be in demand but they're only in demand if people know that
Speaker:they're there and, and they're able to easily contact them and, and get in touch.
Speaker:And so, you know, by working with people for a long period of time, sometimes
Speaker:they just need a simple set up and You know, a little bit of content coming out.
Speaker:But even doing that can be difficult.
Speaker:We hope you're enjoying listening to the Biz Bites podcast.
Speaker:Have you ever thought about having your own podcast?
Speaker:One for your business, where your brilliance is exposed
Speaker:to the rest of the world.
Speaker:Well, come talk to us at Podcasts Done For You.
Speaker:That's what we're all about.
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Speaker:au.
Speaker:Details in the show notes below.
Speaker:Now, back to Biz Bites.
Speaker:And so, you know, by working with people for a long period of time, sometimes
Speaker:they just need a simple setup and You know, a little bit of content coming out.
Speaker:But even doing that can be difficult.
Speaker:You know, it's very hard to write for, for these professionals.
Speaker:And adopt their tone of voice and so forth.
Speaker:So we've developed a process that is extremely time effective.
Speaker:So it's a, it's a one hour session at the start of a process
Speaker:for a six month of content.
Speaker:Which is pretty cool.
Speaker:So people, when they hear that, they go, wow, because I don't like marketing
Speaker:generally, but I want to deal with it.
Speaker:They have to have it, but they don't want to deal with it.
Speaker:And then, you know, we just need half an hour a week.
Speaker:And that's it.
Speaker:That's, that's all their time commitment.
Speaker:And then we do all the rest of the work and they, and even we work with
Speaker:their teams to, to approve the content.
Speaker:If that, they have that available.
Speaker:And I just love all those things.
Speaker:And the reason I developed it is because I just understand what they're like.
Speaker:You know, I understand a surgeon's working killer hours there.
Speaker:You know, they're highly paid, they don't want to spend time
Speaker:doing marketing material.
Speaker:So, so we take all the pain away and give them what they need to be successful.
Speaker:And, and it's interesting, it's, it's sometimes simple is better than complex.
Speaker:It's, it's really quite interesting how marketing is becoming so
Speaker:technical with click funnels and, you know, so much technology and AI.
Speaker:And what I find is people have lost the personalization.
Speaker:They forget they're talking to a person.
Speaker:And I have to remind people, you know, I've got a mutual friend of
Speaker:ours who came to see me recently.
Speaker:And they run a technology business.
Speaker:And one thing that they were telling me, all the systems have got set up
Speaker:and I'm like, When do you talk to them?
Speaker:And they're like, Oh, yeah.
Speaker:And I'm like, People just want to be heard.
Speaker:People want to know that you understand them.
Speaker:People want to feel that you care about them.
Speaker:We're still humans at the end of the day and with all the wonderful
Speaker:technology, which assists us people buy from people and what we try and
Speaker:bring into personal branding is just authenticity and, you know, being real.
Speaker:And that is more in demand as AI comes in than before
Speaker:because people can smell a fake.
Speaker:They can.
Speaker:See when something's GPT written and we do everything kind of old school by hand.
Speaker:And by doing that and crafting really good stories and narratives and the things
Speaker:that you can't get from the internet.
Speaker:You know, you know, I can't Google Andrew Ford and say, you know, here's a story
Speaker:from my childhood that's going to be relevant to a particular situation today.
Speaker:It's not there, you know, you can talk about marketing, but the story
Speaker:behind how I arrived at my marketing method and why that's important.
Speaker:Is, is the only thing that I can do and that's great because that makes me
Speaker:different from everyone else because no one else can do that either and we try
Speaker:and get that out of our clients and we find it works super well because it, it
Speaker:kind of when it resonates with people, it supercharges the algorithms and
Speaker:we get a lot of, you know, responses.
Speaker:It's, it's really an interesting space.
Speaker:This balance between authenticity and AI.
Speaker:People are so busy jumping on the AI bandwagon.
Speaker:We must use it.
Speaker:We must use it.
Speaker:And they forget that AI is only as good as the information that you feed it.
Speaker:And if you're not feeding it any of your own information, all you're
Speaker:doing is reproducing the same thing that everybody else is producing.
Speaker:Correct.
Speaker:And so you can.
Speaker:Actually, if you want to stand out, you need to differentiate yourself in
Speaker:the market and as you're saying before, it's the storytelling is so important.
Speaker:I think it's the nuances of storytelling that people forget because it's
Speaker:become a bit of a catchphrase.
Speaker:Oh, we've got to tell stories, but the main thing that happens with
Speaker:stories is the way you tell them.
Speaker:varies completely depending on the situation that you're in.
Speaker:You know, if we're sitting here and we've got an hour to talk, then the story that
Speaker:I might tell you is a longer one versus.
Speaker:I know you've got to leave in 30 seconds, so let me just give you the shortened
Speaker:version and again, knowing who you are and what you're about might mean that I
Speaker:emphasize certain different aspects of the story, depending on the circumstance.
Speaker:That's not stuff that an AI is going to ever be able to do because it
Speaker:can't filter through your own lens.
Speaker:It's not going to feel what you feel and have all the background
Speaker:that you've brought into a story.
Speaker:I mean, I think how often.
Speaker:If you've been out, it could be on a holiday, for example, somewhere, and
Speaker:you might be four of you, and you're all in a slightly different mood, slightly
Speaker:different ages, all of those kinds of things, and you're looking at something,
Speaker:and every single one of the four of you has a completely different experience,
Speaker:and the story is the same, right?
Speaker:You came, you went, you saw you know, it's, but it's not, That's
Speaker:not something that I can do.
Speaker:And I think that's where that human nature is so important in content.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And also AI the social media platforms are If something's written in AI,
Speaker:they're not giving it as much reach as an organic written article.
Speaker:So they're starting to do, there's a lot of software that can pick
Speaker:up whether something's AI written.
Speaker:And so there's you know, and I teach at university and there's a lot of those
Speaker:programs we have to use to test, you know, the veracity of our student results.
Speaker:And so, you know, a handwritten organically written article
Speaker:is going to get better reach.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That said, we still use our tools.
Speaker:So, you know, we make websites, we write people's books, we do blogs, we do
Speaker:videos, we do, you know, podcasts, sort of strategy and those sorts of things.
Speaker:And so when we're doing those sorts of things, AI can be very
Speaker:helpful in elements of that.
Speaker:Like, I don't know if you know, if you use AI to create show notes for podcasts
Speaker:some of our clients like that, some don't.
Speaker:You know, website terms and conditions, fantastic, but not the not the background
Speaker:story of the founder of the company.
Speaker:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker:So it's a sort of time and place.
Speaker:And a lot of people, this is SEO is one of my sort of passion projects
Speaker:because I think that there's a lot of people who do SEO that don't
Speaker:understand the totality of marketing.
Speaker:And so.
Speaker:I don't know if you're the same as me, but I get a, you know, five phone calls
Speaker:a week from someone saying, I want to, I can get you on the first page of Google.
Speaker:And I actually talked to them a bit cause I'm like, Oh, cool.
Speaker:For what?
Speaker:Oh, for your business.
Speaker:Oh, okay.
Speaker:So for what words are we talking about?
Speaker:Is it Andrew Ford?
Speaker:Is it social star?
Speaker:Or is it personal branding?
Speaker:Because that's completely different.
Speaker:Do you mean for Melbourne?
Speaker:Do you mean for Australia wide?
Speaker:Geography matters.
Speaker:And so there's all of these contextual things that I'm sure they could
Speaker:talk to me about, you know, but it depends because you know, my, my
Speaker:style of marketing is what I call inside out rather than outside in.
Speaker:So inside out means, most clients in my market, professional services,
Speaker:don't need that many clients.
Speaker:You know, I mean, how many podcasts can you run?
Speaker:How many surgeries can a surgeon do?
Speaker:How many, you know, clients can a consultant have?
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:It's normally less than 20 at any one time.
Speaker:You know, they've got limited bandwidth because they are the deliverer.
Speaker:They are the product.
Speaker:Unless they're selling a course or a book or something that's different.
Speaker:But in terms of their core service, generally they're delivering it themselves
Speaker:and it's high value, low volume work.
Speaker:So if you only need 20 clients, You don't need a million people on
Speaker:the internet to know who you are.
Speaker:So, and so instead of going out with random, you know, search engine
Speaker:optimization to get strangers to your site who may not be applicable,
Speaker:because that's what that is, or doing meta marketing or any sort of push
Speaker:marketing techniques where there's a high volume of low quality candidates
Speaker:that you have to filter through.
Speaker:That's actually annoying for my, for my clients.
Speaker:They don't want that, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So we use inside out marketing, which is basically we start with your network
Speaker:and we get them to give you referrals.
Speaker:So, but how do people and someone say, Oh, I've got lots of, you know, good people
Speaker:in my network already get referrals.
Speaker:I go, yeah, but there's a process to referrals.
Speaker:People think that you can't extrapolate more referrals and that's not true.
Speaker:Because if you went out to, let's not say the people closest
Speaker:to you, but let's say the next.
Speaker:You know, not the 10 closest people, but the, the next 100 or the next
Speaker:1000, if I called them today and said, explain to me exactly what you
Speaker:do, would they be able to tell me?
Speaker:And I don't think they would, you know, most people, they'd be like, oh, they're
Speaker:a doctor or they work in technology.
Speaker:And I don't, they might be marketing.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:So if they can't say exactly what you do, then I can't give you a proper
Speaker:referral, you know, because I don't want a referral just for somebody who wants
Speaker:to, you know, do Instagram marketing.
Speaker:Cause that's not what I do.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You know, I want to refer from my exact target market for if professional services
Speaker:who wants a small number of clients who's prepared to invest the time and energy
Speaker:in creating high quality materials to get a good result, a long term result.
Speaker:And so, you know, I'm very specific with who we want.
Speaker:And so the people who, you know, are close to me, so the top
Speaker:1000 people in my network would understand that and they refer like
Speaker:minded people because my clients.
Speaker:Refer and hang out with people who are also similar to them,
Speaker:which is also my clients.
Speaker:So, so inside out marketing, we find for our clients works tremendously well,
Speaker:but you've got to clearly communicate your offering and do it repeatedly.
Speaker:And the best way to do that is by not marketing it's by helping.
Speaker:And so we find educative content, the storytelling to, you know, just giving
Speaker:generosity of, of information away is.
Speaker:Super, you know, it works really well for our target market.
Speaker:It's not for everybody, but for that market it works super well.
Speaker:And marketing as a term, I think has become so generic, so misunderstood and
Speaker:an off putting word for many people.
Speaker:I mean, how many times have you, I'm sure like me have heard people
Speaker:saying, Oh, I don't do any marketing.
Speaker:Really?
Speaker:You've never talked to anybody ever.
Speaker:So that's it.
Speaker:You just like, you just show up in the office and There's no signs on the door.
Speaker:There's nothing.
Speaker:People magically just walk in and say, Oh, I want to buy from you.
Speaker:You're marketing all the time, but it's such a misunderstood area.
Speaker:It's fascinating to me because when I first set up my agency, I tried
Speaker:everything to not use the term marketing.
Speaker:So we talked about communication, but communication got hijacked by
Speaker:PR agencies and You know, not what when you're getting into branding in
Speaker:those areas, it's not the same thing.
Speaker:And then you talk about marketing and people immediately assume
Speaker:that you're selling ads and doing all sorts of other things.
Speaker:So it's a, it's a really difficult space, but I think that when it cuts down to the
Speaker:basics of it, it is what you're saying.
Speaker:It's about storytelling.
Speaker:It's about the authenticity.
Speaker:It's about the individual.
Speaker:You know, I think doctors are a fascinating group because.
Speaker:We all choose doctors for whether it's a GP or a specialist because of
Speaker:how we feel we interact with them.
Speaker:Do we feel good about who they are?
Speaker:You know, some of us may prefer a male or female, old or young but
Speaker:there's also deeper, there's the, you know, there's some sort of
Speaker:shared value system that's there.
Speaker:Do they understand who I am and what I'm about?
Speaker:And do I feel that they'll, they'll understand me?
Speaker:All of those things are so important.
Speaker:And yet that information is, that's the same for any business, by the way,
Speaker:but they're not transferred across more often than not, you get these very flat
Speaker:brochure where style websites where there's no personality, there's no sense
Speaker:of who the, the, the individuals are behind it, everything looks the same.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:And you're 100 percent correct.
Speaker:Like your, you know perception about marketing is such a truism.
Speaker:And really everyone's in marketing, you know, pretty much anyone can do
Speaker:marketing because we always social media.
Speaker:And when I teach, because I teach at university, I've studied, you know,
Speaker:I did three postgraduate degrees, I've been teaching for 15 years.
Speaker:So, you know, I know the academic side and I've got the practical sort of side too.
Speaker:And one thing I see about those differences between the academic and
Speaker:the practical is that young people when they come into university,
Speaker:you know, they do an assignment for me in my digital marketing course.
Speaker:I'd say 50 to 60 percent of them all have the answer is to do Instagram, like
Speaker:Instagram is the answer, like Instagram, and so I think marketing equals digital
Speaker:marketing, digital marketing, social media and social media was Instagram.
Speaker:Therefore, all marketing equals Instagram.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And then I have to remind them that there's actually, at the very basic
Speaker:level, four Ps in marketing, right?
Speaker:So one of them is promotion.
Speaker:And promotion is every sort of communication medium you can imagine
Speaker:from, you know, mail, letterbox, drops, you know, TV ads, radio, you know,
Speaker:podcasts plus all the digital features.
Speaker:So there's a huge scope of that for a start.
Speaker:Then the other thing is product.
Speaker:And if you're not selling, if I get you leads and you're not converting,
Speaker:there's a problem with your product or it's a problem with your price.
Speaker:So we look at pricing.
Speaker:We look at products and not just individual products, but product
Speaker:ecosystems, you know, from like the dent days, it could be place, you know,
Speaker:where are you selling your products?
Speaker:You're selling them online.
Speaker:Maybe a bit of selling them face to face.
Speaker:Maybe there's other other places that you could distribute.
Speaker:So we look at the entire business model because that's actually
Speaker:what marketing is supposed to be.
Speaker:And you know, the problem is that people will.
Speaker:Think they can do marketing because they can know how to
Speaker:use Instagram and make reels.
Speaker:And that is a form of marketing but it's not what marketing is in totality.
Speaker:And so, you know, what I'm really passionate about is marketing strategy.
Speaker:Is, and, and, the, the building blocks of marketing is you've got people with a
Speaker:problem and they want something solved.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Nothing, if there's no problem, there's no need for you, right?
Speaker:Then there's people with solutions who can solve them really well.
Speaker:And how do you find them?
Speaker:How do you find each other?
Speaker:That's basically all marketing is, but what people don't do is, they
Speaker:don't think about the problems, right?
Speaker:They don't know who they are and then formulate their product to suit that
Speaker:and then find the bridge to find them.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and we do a lot of, you know, physical marketing as well as digital.
Speaker:So we find that in fact, physical marketing is actually making a
Speaker:comeback because, you know, people are turning away from social media.
Speaker:They are literally looking at it less, I mean stats probably
Speaker:don't support it because there's so many people in the world.
Speaker:But if you think about daily behaviours, people are trying to get off social media.
Speaker:Schools are trying to get kids off and we've got laws in Australia
Speaker:to stop people being on social media after a certain age, right?
Speaker:And so people are craving a bit more physicality because we've had
Speaker:such a domination of social media.
Speaker:So we're running events, we're doing in person, ringing phone,
Speaker:never cold calling but warm calling.
Speaker:talking to people answering their questions, doing physical, we call
Speaker:it high impact outreach of things like books and, you know, we have a
Speaker:cupcake outreach program, we delivered Christmas cookies for a client, that
Speaker:sort of stuff because it's so rare.
Speaker:Is over the top value, over the top value.
Speaker:We, I can't tell you how well this stuff's working.
Speaker:It's incredible because no one does it.
Speaker:They're like, Oh, I'll just hire a medirad person and notice, you know,
Speaker:find 10, 000 people and a hundred of them will want to buy something.
Speaker:I go, but people you want, are they loyal?
Speaker:It's interesting.
Speaker:Is it, when's the last time you get it?
Speaker:Got a surprise in the mail.
Speaker:The only thing, the only thing that I, you know, there are two things that
Speaker:you get these days in the mail you get, well, it's not technically in the mail.
Speaker:You get an Amazon delivery.
Speaker:They seem to happen regularly in certain households and then you also
Speaker:get you still get the fridge magnets from your plumbers and electricians.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, calendars.
Speaker:Outside of that, that's pretty much what you get in the mail these days.
Speaker:So when you can put something in, although I wouldn't put a cupcake in the mail, but
Speaker:you could, but when you, but when you're putting, you know, other things in there,
Speaker:absolutely, it stands out, doesn't it?
Speaker:Because it's something different and you take notice of it.
Speaker:And it's almost, it's almost back to those original days when.
Speaker:There were no social media and all those things.
Speaker:And people would get excited when the mailman came around.
Speaker:Yeah, well, it's interesting because that and my students are
Speaker:trying to give them an aha moment.
Speaker:And you know, even when they're a fashion brand, you go logically,
Speaker:Instagram's a great product for that.
Speaker:And then I'm like, so how many other fashion brands advertise on Instagram?
Speaker:And I go, everybody, I go, how are you going to stand out?
Speaker:Maybe you should not do Instagram or do it, but then focus your
Speaker:attention on something else.
Speaker:But, because Instagram isn't a solution.
Speaker:Instagram is a platform to put a solution on and the strategy
Speaker:is, well, what's the creative?
Speaker:What are you doing?
Speaker:You know, and in person or physical things and digital work extremely well.
Speaker:So I'm going to show it show and tell.
Speaker:Yeah, right.
Speaker:That's, that's the receipt from Australia Post for a bunch
Speaker:of books we sent out today.
Speaker:So I sent out 20 books.
Speaker:It's actually to one of my partner's clients.
Speaker:So he wants to do some work with us.
Speaker:And so he's, we're sending out my book.
Speaker:Great powerful business that I just wrote to his clients
Speaker:as a Christmas gift from him.
Speaker:So it cost me a couple hundred dollars in postage and those people are going
Speaker:to get a Christmas gift of knowledge, of a book, a physical thing, right?
Speaker:We sent out Christmas gifts of Christmas ornaments, social star Christmas
Speaker:ornaments, which we got handmade and, you know, and so we do these sorts of things
Speaker:and you, people send thank you notes.
Speaker:People are like, wow, I didn't get anything this year and, you know,
Speaker:you bothered to send something, you know, it's that personal.
Speaker:Like my one of my assistants, my marketing coordinator, she.
Speaker:Not only writes Christmas cards, she hand makes them, hand paints them.
Speaker:I'm like, nobody does this.
Speaker:This is like, I said, I hope I get one because I'm really
Speaker:looking forward to getting it.
Speaker:Cause it's not, it's unusual.
Speaker:So if you think about, you know, marketing basics and I love making a
Speaker:good strategy, doing something different.
Speaker:So the purple cow theory, Seth Godin, just, you know, one of the
Speaker:marketing founders, purple cow theory.
Speaker:If you see a purple cow, it's extraordinary.
Speaker:If you see a black and white cow, it's not so much.
Speaker:If everybody is doing things in digital, what are you doing that's different,
Speaker:you know, and how do you stand out?
Speaker:So I'm not saying don't do digital, digital is absolutely needed, you
Speaker:know, good communication vehicles.
Speaker:If you send something in the post and they get a Christmas ornament from
Speaker:Social Star, I mean, these are for our clients, you're going to have
Speaker:a little bit of, wow, that's really interesting, that's cool, different.
Speaker:Then if I send you a Let's say that you are not a client, I LinkedIn
Speaker:request, or maybe, you know, I want to have a chat with you, you're probably
Speaker:much more receptive to doing that.
Speaker:You know, it works in unison, and it doesn't cost a lot.
Speaker:Digital ads cost a lot.
Speaker:Sending out something in the post costs 2, like, it's, it's,
Speaker:you know, but it's creativity.
Speaker:And I always say creativity beats money every day of the week.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And and look, and I know as well, I've had so many experiences over the years
Speaker:with how effective exactly this kind of strategy can be was a few years ago
Speaker:now, but we were I was working with an organization that was introducing
Speaker:it was introducing a new organization.
Speaker:So it was built on the credibility of one person.
Speaker:And we were trying to get people to turn up at an event so that
Speaker:they could pitch from there.
Speaker:And what we actually ended up doing was we dropped off at every people,
Speaker:every person's place, a a card with a digital screen in it that had a
Speaker:video from that person in there.
Speaker:And it was such a novelty at the time for people getting it.
Speaker:A little bit more common today, but it's not hugely common to be, to be doing it
Speaker:because it is a an expensive item, but we were asking for a lot of money from people
Speaker:that were, that were going to show up.
Speaker:So it was absolutely worth the investment.
Speaker:And I remember sitting at the event and people didn't know who I was.
Speaker:I was just invited because I was.
Speaker:That helped with all of the the background and the marketing and people would sit
Speaker:next to me and go, Oh, the only reason I've showed up is because of the,
Speaker:that's nice.
Speaker:I said, I'll take that one.
Speaker:Thank you very much.
Speaker:And, and it was, it was a huge success, but again, it was because
Speaker:of exactly what you're saying, trying to do something different to
Speaker:stand out and show the personality.
Speaker:I think that's the important thing too, that the personality has to come out.
Speaker:You can't just do something for the sake of doing it because, you know, the hand.
Speaker:The, the hand drawn piece of art, the, you know, the handmade, you know, cookies,
Speaker:the, the things that are made that reflect the individual make a huge difference.
Speaker:And even if it is something that is a, you know, a traditional merchandise
Speaker:piece, it's what you can bring with it.
Speaker:The handwritten note that goes with it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That those things make all of the difference.
Speaker:And, and you think about that these days.
Speaker:I mean and we were talking about before we, before we started the
Speaker:podcast about a handwritten note that I'd, I'd left for someone.
Speaker:How often, when was the last time you received a handwritten note?
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, genuine handwritten note.
Speaker:Hardly, hardly ever.
Speaker:And, you know, I think it's, you know, it, it's a nice signal because
Speaker:it's unusual and it's touching.
Speaker:You know, I mean, I, I wrote, you know, when I, when I was doing my book launch,
Speaker:everyone who came to my book launch, I wrote a hand, you know, I thought about
Speaker:the message, I thought about the person you know, my cousin bought one, I sent
Speaker:it to her, she burst into tears when she read the message, you know, it's like,
Speaker:that's, but that's how cool is that?
Speaker:That's a connection, you know, and, you know, I think that, I
Speaker:don't know, I think that humans need more connection these days.
Speaker:I think we're lacking that personal You know, touch, you know, and I think
Speaker:after COVID people really crave it now.
Speaker:Yeah, it's funny because I, I I get your take on this.
Speaker:I felt this before COVID and I felt it got heightened as a result of after COVID
Speaker:and we're not still not quite there.
Speaker:I think there is a real pull to genuine community.
Speaker:I think the word community has been hijacked for a long time because
Speaker:a lot of people would say, Oh, I belong to the local community.
Speaker:Well, just cause you live in the same area.
Speaker:It doesn't make.
Speaker:A community.
Speaker:Yeah, because you follow the same football team does not
Speaker:make you part of the community.
Speaker:There has to be more to it.
Speaker:There has to be something deeper.
Speaker:And I think that pull towards community.
Speaker:And I think that the difference is in this age is that that can be.
Speaker:Extend across borders, but there has to be something more to it and building that up
Speaker:in that sense of why you belong and that drive to then eventually want to actually
Speaker:be in person at some point, rather than it just being this sort of digital.
Speaker:Nobody.
Speaker:Yeah, you know, that's where I see there being more and more of
Speaker:that happening and creating that.
Speaker:And it's that idea of niching as well, because it is when you get down when it
Speaker:gets down to it, as we talked about in the beginning, people do business with people.
Speaker:And when you have those shared values, and you have that deeper sense of
Speaker:wanting to belong to a community, you're more likely to go to that person,
Speaker:regardless, sometimes of the cost.
Speaker:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker:Because it's if someone you trust.
Speaker:Then, you know, that's the, that's the difference and gaining
Speaker:trust is slow and easy to lose.
Speaker:So branding that we sort of branding we do is a slow accumulation
Speaker:of trust from your marketplace.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:You know, if you want an instant result, that's not the process, you know, and
Speaker:thing is, we're sort of on the dopamine hook of fast results, you know, I'm doing
Speaker:it, do some ads and I'll get a, you know, 100 people who you know, wanting to talk
Speaker:to me, wanting to talk, you know, who may take my call over the next sort of
Speaker:three months, whereas we don't want that.
Speaker:We want people who genuinely wanting to work with you.
Speaker:And so we actually put barriers in place to make sure that they are qualified.
Speaker:All Which people think is extraordinary.
Speaker:We call it de marketing.
Speaker:So it's, you know, if someone wants to buy your service, don't
Speaker:let them buy straight away.
Speaker:Make sure that you fully understand their problems, fully understand their
Speaker:needs, and you are the right fit.
Speaker:Because working with the wrong clients is worse than getting no clients.
Speaker:Because You don't have a bad experience, I give a bad review, you might have
Speaker:to, you know, cut the service short, give them a refund, it's all, you know,
Speaker:you want to have the right people for you and, you know, building a brand
Speaker:is a slow, steady process over years, but I kid you not, once you get there,
Speaker:once you build it and it's robust, you don't have to do a lot to maintain it.
Speaker:It's, it's a remarkable thing.
Speaker:It's an asset and analogy I use, you know, to look at the comparison
Speaker:and no disparaging to people who do, you know, pay digital marketing
Speaker:for certain industries and products.
Speaker:That's makes complete sense, you know, and I did do it for several of my clients
Speaker:is if you think about accommodation.
Speaker:So, you know, my son's 19 and maybe one day he'll want to move
Speaker:out of home, probably unlikely.
Speaker:Because like, these days, you can't afford, the kids can't
Speaker:afford to move out of home.
Speaker:I know, right?
Speaker:And why would he?
Speaker:He's got, you know, he's got his luxury pad where I live.
Speaker:So, so let's say that he did, then the options are he could buy a house
Speaker:or he could rent a house, right?
Speaker:So let's say you choose the rental path.
Speaker:That's much easier.
Speaker:He's less fussy about where he is because it's Temporary.
Speaker:It's financially just needs, you know, a month's rent and, you know,
Speaker:there's a deposit and then, you know, that and to show he's got the income.
Speaker:So it's quite easy to get into a rental place, right?
Speaker:But the problem is he goes there and he lives there for two years
Speaker:and he stopped paying rent.
Speaker:And what do they do?
Speaker:Well, I kick him out, right?
Speaker:You know, anything that he's done to improve that place over that
Speaker:time is lost, you know, so he works like to work in the garden.
Speaker:So he does the garden up, but when he moves out, he's got nothing now.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:That's, that's paid marketing, to be honest.
Speaker:You, you, you do paid marketing, generate leads, you get tips for, you know, getting
Speaker:lots of people through the, the process.
Speaker:You stop paying, you know, Google or Meta, it stops.
Speaker:There's maybe a little legacy, you know, benefit, but pretty
Speaker:much the leads will stop as soon as you stop paying them, right?
Speaker:If you do branding, it's like buying a house.
Speaker:It takes longer to assess what you want to do.
Speaker:It takes longer to choose because it's much more personal, right?
Speaker:Then you've got to go ahead and save the deposit and do all the work to do that.
Speaker:Then you finally get in somewhere and it takes a while to pay it off.
Speaker:But, you know, in the same two years, you've now got an asset that's
Speaker:appreciated and you've got some value.
Speaker:And if you do it for long enough and have a really good brand or a really
Speaker:good asset, then when you finish paying it off, wow, you know, and
Speaker:after 10 years of, you know, more than 10 years of building my brand.
Speaker:I know that I've got a community of people out there who feed me
Speaker:referrals, and I'm very grateful.
Speaker:Thank you to all the people out there who give me referrals.
Speaker:And so that, that asset that I've built up over time, which is not my
Speaker:website, and it's not social media, and it's not any one blog, and it's
Speaker:not my book, or any of those things.
Speaker:All those things contribute.
Speaker:It's how those people think and feel about me based on every interaction they've had.
Speaker:So it's a feeling, it's an energy.
Speaker:And I know that I've put You know, tremendous amount of effort into that
Speaker:brand, helping people for free, you know, you know, working with people
Speaker:and giving them advice, referring them to my clients and friends and putting
Speaker:that energy in and then it comes back.
Speaker:And so, but that to me is a far better thing to do.
Speaker:If you're a passion business, and if you really enjoy what you do
Speaker:and you can invest 10 years in it, you might as well buy the house
Speaker:instead of renting for 10 years.
Speaker:I wanted to ask you about this, well, I don't know if it's a dilemma or not,
Speaker:but it's, it's an, I think it's been an interesting back and forth personal
Speaker:branding versus business branding, because there's been points where,
Speaker:you know, pull back on your personal brand, go for your, go for your business
Speaker:brand, but it seems to be drawing in.
Speaker:More and more back towards the personal brand these days, and even though people
Speaker:want to scale their business, and even though it's about more than just the one
Speaker:individual, it still seems to be that that personal brand is coming to the
Speaker:fore more and more, and I think it is about that human interaction, and it's
Speaker:also, I mean, to me, I look at it and I say, well, the value in a, in a Larger
Speaker:business in promoting an individual brand is also that those that individual at the
Speaker:top can command a high fee if you want to actually engage with them as well.
Speaker:Yeah, that's actually really interesting.
Speaker:So there's three brands in any business, right?
Speaker:And this is every single business every single time.
Speaker:I've yet to see an exception.
Speaker:So there's people, there's the business and there's the products.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And iKev is a service.
Speaker:We productize services all the time.
Speaker:So we call that the same.
Speaker:So let's start with the products.
Speaker:So if you're selling based on product, like if you're marketing
Speaker:products, then it's what's your widget compared to another widget, right?
Speaker:So if you're a lawyer and that's, that's, you know, we're
Speaker:separating these three things out.
Speaker:So as a lawyer, what are you selling?
Speaker:So you're selling time, For advice.
Speaker:So let's say that you need a will drawn up.
Speaker:That's something very basic.
Speaker:So if what you're doing is selling a will and that is the thing that is
Speaker:the outcome that the customer wants.
Speaker:So you're Googling, you know, getting a will.
Speaker:There's people you can do it online now.
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:It can be easily replaced by the new tech thing.
Speaker:Because, because that's a commodity.
Speaker:So if you're selling products only you're in the commodity space.
Speaker:That's harder to be found.
Speaker:It's more expensive to be found.
Speaker:And it doesn't work as well.
Speaker:So, so because it you're competing with everybody else, right?
Speaker:That's the the marketing dilemma of a free market enterprise where
Speaker:you're selling apples next to everyone else selling apples and
Speaker:you can't charge anymore, right?
Speaker:And unless your product is unique, you're a monopoly like oil, you know,
Speaker:or the telcos used to be or you have such a tremendously different product
Speaker:that no one else has it like Tesla had, you know a first mover advantage.
Speaker:So unless you've got that, you're, you're basically getting, you're a press takeout.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And you have to work really hard and virtually none of those
Speaker:products, those companies make above averaging profitability.
Speaker:They might sell a lot of volume, but they're not getting above average profit.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So then the second part of that is a business, a company.
Speaker:So then you might mark it under the company name.
Speaker:So if you're, you know, a big company like Telstra, well, people know who you are.
Speaker:And people think of Telstra and they, you know, most likely go not very
Speaker:good service, but great network.
Speaker:You know, I'll put my mobile phone with them because that's important to me, you
Speaker:know or they might not, they might go, well, Vodafone is going to be cheaper.
Speaker:I'll go with Vodafone because of that, but I'll put up with it.
Speaker:So, so there's choices, but they're, they're not buying a burst on any person.
Speaker:That's a combination of the product and the brand, right?
Speaker:Now, service is a component of the brand.
Speaker:The terms, conditions, you know, what's the history?
Speaker:Are they going to look after me?
Speaker:You know, you mentioned Telstra the pool, you know, they're not very happy, right?
Speaker:So, so that's a reputation.
Speaker:Where's that come from?
Speaker:Well, years and years and years of experience.
Speaker:I worked for Telstra before, you know, I actually had quite a good
Speaker:experience for a long period of time.
Speaker:So, so that's the company marketing.
Speaker:Now, if you're talking about solopreneurship, like, or a small
Speaker:business owner, your company is unknown.
Speaker:You know, unless you've been established for 10 years and had
Speaker:a, you know, a thousand clients, then it doesn't really matter much.
Speaker:It matters a bit.
Speaker:It matters.
Speaker:It just doesn't matter as much in your marketing.
Speaker:Then we go into people.
Speaker:Now, at a lot of companies, you don't even know who the key people are.
Speaker:But there is people involved, right?
Speaker:So if you talk about say a bank, you know, Commonwealth Bank.
Speaker:Who's, who's in charge of that?
Speaker:Who knows, right?
Speaker:Some people will know, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker:What I'm looking at is the brand of the bank and also the products I have.
Speaker:But none of them can achieve above average profit compared to the others.
Speaker:I mean, they all make squillions, but those four all compete, and none of
Speaker:them earn more than others, right?
Speaker:Because that's the marketplace.
Speaker:So you think about the brands that have a combination of all of those things, right?
Speaker:So if you think of the cars, like Tesla, You know, and I'll admit that I'm a
Speaker:Tesla driver, I love Elon Musk, well not love, but I respect what he's done.
Speaker:He's a very controversial figure, right?
Speaker:People love him, they hate him, but you know who he is.
Speaker:You know, who's ahead of Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Volt, who knows, right?
Speaker:So they're selling on company and product, but he's selling on
Speaker:product, company and person, right?
Speaker:And, you know, he's the most valuable car brand in the world,
Speaker:yet they produce so little.
Speaker:You know, a small percentage of the volume compared to a, you know, a GMH or a Ford
Speaker:or a, you know, BMW or so forth, you know, another industry, so airlines, right?
Speaker:Virgin, you know, we think of Richard Branson, technology, we think of who,
Speaker:you know, if you're thinking of Apple, you know, we've got, we still think
Speaker:of, you know, the people who were in charge of those organizations, even if
Speaker:they're not even connected to it anymore.
Speaker:So it has an impact.
Speaker:I'm not saying it's the only thing.
Speaker:But it's definitely part of the process.
Speaker:Now, the sort of people you and I work with, and probably the people
Speaker:who listen to the podcast, when you first start your business, it is
Speaker:about 90 percent your personal brand.
Speaker:Because your company hasn't done trading, and your product is
Speaker:not established in the market.
Speaker:It's all about you.
Speaker:It's your past reputation that is the only thing, and people don't want
Speaker:to put their brand out there and go, you're doing yourself a disservice.
Speaker:Because really what you're selling is you.
Speaker:The more people you get into the organisation, the more long, you
Speaker:know, services and reputation you've established over the years, then your
Speaker:company starts being more important.
Speaker:And eventually if you productise your services, then that becomes important.
Speaker:You know, for you, if you're selling podcasts, you know, that's,
Speaker:there's lots of people doing that.
Speaker:But what is the niche?
Speaker:What is the specific package and product that people go, ah,
Speaker:I know that particular style.
Speaker:That's the style of product.
Speaker:That's what becomes valuable.
Speaker:So I'm not saying personal brands, everything, but I go, that's the
Speaker:cheapest, easiest way to do marketing and it's the most beneficial.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Why wouldn't you do it?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I think I feel like I should insert the ad for podcast.
Speaker:Might do that later in post production.
Speaker:So we'll see.
Speaker:Stay tuned if you heard it or not.
Speaker:But no, I, I 100 percent agree with you.
Speaker:And what's really interesting as well.
Speaker:When you look at even some of the bigger brands, you mentioned like the banks
Speaker:is a good example when they advertise They fight to build a personal brand
Speaker:because they see the value in it, which is why they develop, you know themes or,
Speaker:and stories that they try to tell it.
Speaker:And you know, the classic probably in insurances is Amy, you know,
Speaker:they've given a personality person and and, and they, you know, Toyota
Speaker:for years was the Oh, what a feeling was trying to give a personality was
Speaker:trying to deliver a personal brand inside of a company brand as well.
Speaker:So the big brands are doing it.
Speaker:There's no reason why at a smaller level you should.
Speaker:Well, there's not no reason you absolutely should be doing it because you've
Speaker:got an asset that they don't have.
Speaker:They've got to try and falsely create it, whereas you've got
Speaker:it at a small business level.
Speaker:There is someone there.
Speaker:There is an owner that is not that far away from the from.
Speaker:You know, from what's happening day to day, and there's every reason to
Speaker:promote them as an integral part of it.
Speaker:It's, it's choosing how you do that.
Speaker:I think one of the hard things about marketing is that, you know,
Speaker:we talked about earlier, a lot of people think it's a dirty word
Speaker:or they just don't want to do it.
Speaker:And yet that's the thing, isn't it?
Speaker:If you make it simple.
Speaker:it can be really possible.
Speaker:You know, it's what we do with podcasts.
Speaker:It's what you do with in, in some of your things as well.
Speaker:And I think that's an important message for people to understand that
Speaker:it doesn't need to be complicated.
Speaker:If you go, if you go down the right path with the right people.
Speaker:Yeah, a hundred percent.
Speaker:And so, you know, personal branding is not new.
Speaker:I mean, it's, it's, you know, think of the Marlboro man, you know, think of George
Speaker:Clooney with Nespresso that's personal branding outsourced, but that's risky.
Speaker:Because they don't control those people, they, you know, you can, you
Speaker:know, any celebrity or any influencer can do whatever they want, right?
Speaker:So it's, but, and the person who's the best person to do it is the
Speaker:owner, but you're right, is people go, Oh, I don't want to be marketing.
Speaker:I don't want to be pushy.
Speaker:I don't want to, you know, people think you know, think all bad things
Speaker:about me because I'm, I'm being salesy, but that's, that's not done.
Speaker:It's not self promotion.
Speaker:It's not, you know, using your brand to help people solve a
Speaker:problem is not self promotion.
Speaker:If you genuinely are wanting to help people.
Speaker:So a surgeon giving advice to, or doctors giving advice to people out there who
Speaker:have a problem for free is not salesy.
Speaker:That's helpful.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:The biggest person in finance talking about the banks who don't have a, you
Speaker:know, any one person representing them is the Barefoot Investor, Scott Pape.
Speaker:Now, he's got the best selling, one of the best selling books in Australia.
Speaker:Now.
Speaker:Not help, you know, factual books, any book, right?
Speaker:And 2 million copies.
Speaker:That's extraordinary, right?
Speaker:His book.
Speaker:Now, why has that book been so successful compared to the millions of other
Speaker:finance books that are out there?
Speaker:Because it's his story.
Speaker:I mean, it's about, it's about him.
Speaker:He talks about his farm and the fire at the farm and this
Speaker:happened and that happened and it's extremely personal, right?
Speaker:So you're buying into him and then you're getting the advice.
Speaker:Rather than just, you could write, you could write his advice
Speaker:on four pieces of paper, right?
Speaker:But it's the 200, you know, pages of story that makes me motivated to want to do the
Speaker:advice that's on the four pieces of paper.
Speaker:That's the key.
Speaker:And so, and so when you're helping people, it feels good.
Speaker:And when you're selling to people, it feels bad.
Speaker:So don't sell help.
Speaker:And funnily enough, when you help, they want to work with you.
Speaker:So we say don't, don't sell, let them buy.
Speaker:But they're not going to buy if they're getting, you know, if
Speaker:someone else is giving them that advice, then they'll go to them.
Speaker:So, this is the style of marketing.
Speaker:I think it works in pretty much every industry.
Speaker:You know, I've had product people who have adopted this approach.
Speaker:We've had real estate agents, we've had insurance people who are
Speaker:in highly competitive industries.
Speaker:Where this approach has worked.
Speaker:Like, we work in a lady in Adelaide who does real estate.
Speaker:And luckily for us, she wasn't from real estate.
Speaker:She was a marine biologist.
Speaker:So, and single mum, and she wanted to get into real estate.
Speaker:And they're like, cool.
Speaker:So what we do in real estate is you make a hundred calls a day before 10am.
Speaker:That's the process.
Speaker:Cold calls.
Speaker:Ringing people.
Speaker:Have you ever done any cold calling?
Speaker:It's not a fun process.
Speaker:Who wants to get a cold call?
Speaker:Nobody.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And so, and the results are not really good.
Speaker:And particularly now people block and you know, so, so
Speaker:she took a different approach.
Speaker:So I just happened to meet her, be referred.
Speaker:I was doing some, some work with the Real Estate Institute of South Australia.
Speaker:That's how we met.
Speaker:And she won the best marketing of real estate in South Australia twos in a row.
Speaker:Like won that award.
Speaker:Plus she had people calling her going, I only want to work with you.
Speaker:Because their values matched her values, they liked her
Speaker:style, and she was different.
Speaker:Because she wasn't pushy, she went out into the community,
Speaker:and she engaged herself in the community, and she was helpful.
Speaker:And funnily enough, when you're not trying to sell to them, people actually want
Speaker:to talk to you as a real estate agent.
Speaker:So, so, it's really quite interesting is that we've got this mindset that
Speaker:we have to push to get what we want.
Speaker:But it's really not that way, and Hector, a guy from AG who we know.
Speaker:Had a beautiful thing is be the flower, you know, if you're the
Speaker:flower, the bees will come and I go.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:That's such a great analogy.
Speaker:Such a cool analogy.
Speaker:You know, it's, it's, it's interesting when you talk about all
Speaker:of that stuff with people wanting to be you know, you people want.
Speaker:More people coming to them, but they get in their own way.
Speaker:I get often people.
Speaker:I don't want to pee on camera.
Speaker:I go, but you let people see you in person.
Speaker:What's the difference?
Speaker:You know, this is not should not be an issue.
Speaker:There are a lot of things that I think people build these obstacles that stop
Speaker:them from going ahead and taking charge of this kind of What is simple marketing?
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:But it's so important, and I think the, the real estate analogy is
Speaker:a, is a really interesting one.
Speaker:And anyone out there that's ever sold a house or is in the process
Speaker:of doing one, if you haven't done this, then do this because it's,
Speaker:it's important for a lot of reasons.
Speaker:So we sold a house a couple of years ago.
Speaker:and we decided we would interview at least three agents.
Speaker:We were very open in telling all of those agents we are interviewing
Speaker:this person and this person.
Speaker:We didn't hide anything.
Speaker:What was really interesting was that One person came in immediately and spent most
Speaker:of the time rubbishing the other two.
Speaker:That was the reason why we should choose them.
Speaker:And the next person spent a little bit of time saying, they're not really that
Speaker:good and they'll tell you lies, but we're better and we'll, and they discounted.
Speaker:We didn't even talk price, but they were already discounting themselves.
Speaker:And the third person came in and he said, those people are really nice.
Speaker:But we're different.
Speaker:Our price is at this level, which is actually higher.
Speaker:And this is what we do.
Speaker:And this is our system.
Speaker:And this is why we stand out.
Speaker:And you know what?
Speaker:The other two couldn't believe that we chose that one.
Speaker:And, and I'm sure we got a much better result as a, as a result of it.
Speaker:But it's a really interesting process because they, the other
Speaker:two just didn't read the room.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They, they didn't, they, they came in predetermined what they thought
Speaker:we would be thinking and whether it was, you know, and they thought that
Speaker:they could, you know, the interesting thing was that the one that spent
Speaker:the most time rubbishing the other two was the only one that we hadn't
Speaker:even had a conversation with before.
Speaker:The first time we met him was at the meeting.
Speaker:It had been organized by one of his colleagues.
Speaker:So I didn't even know this person and the first words out of his mouth were
Speaker:really these two people are no good.
Speaker:Why are you talking to them?
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:It was just, but, but I think that that's that becomes, you know, the, in
Speaker:the nature of people that they don't, they don't, they get in their own way.
Speaker:They get in their own way.
Speaker:And it's, and they haven't been shown any other way.
Speaker:That's the thing is they, in the, in the lack of advice, they're
Speaker:doing what they, everyone else does.
Speaker:And, and that's not the way to, to get ahead by being like everyone else.
Speaker:So it's interesting what you said, I wanted to raise a point that
Speaker:about personal branding where people go, they don't want to be on
Speaker:camera and those sorts of things.
Speaker:And people who, who think they don't have a brand, they don't have a brand.
Speaker:Everyone's got a brand.
Speaker:That's what people think and feel about you.
Speaker:And you might not have a big brand, but if you're in business, you're seeing
Speaker:customers, like you said, they're going to rock up to your office.
Speaker:Cause I get people who say, Oh, I get a photo.
Speaker:I'm going to lose 10 kilos and I'll get a photo.
Speaker:So you're not going to meet anyone face to face until you lose.
Speaker:I know I see customers every day I go,
Speaker:people are saying, you know, and so we have a lot of tools and techniques to.
Speaker:To coach people through this process, because we all have imposter syndrome,
Speaker:and we all feel, you know, that we don't want to put ourselves out there as much,
Speaker:and look, I'm an extrovert, so I, I'm less sensitive to that, but I, I very much am
Speaker:sensitive to my clients, who most, a lot of them are introverts, and a lot of them
Speaker:are, you know, don't want to seem like they're marketing, you know, in a bad way
Speaker:and they want to look good on, online, but they know that they need to be online.
Speaker:You know, it's just the way you can't hold back the tide, you know,
Speaker:you can't pretend it doesn't exist.
Speaker:And so people recently had this young guy, he's been promoted ahead of sales
Speaker:for this big company that we work with.
Speaker:So they're a global company.
Speaker:And he's like, I don't want to do anything.
Speaker:And I'm like, he uses it for sales, but he just, he doesn't
Speaker:want to improve his profile.
Speaker:He's got this not very flattering photo that doesn't
Speaker:hold him in the highest esteem.
Speaker:And he's like, I don't want to do any of that stuff.
Speaker:I got it.
Speaker:But people are looking at you.
Speaker:Look at your stats.
Speaker:Hundreds of people a month are looking at you.
Speaker:Would you look, do you want to look bad or do you want to look good?
Speaker:I mean, it's, it's quite interesting.
Speaker:So, so these are all things that go in people's heads.
Speaker:And I've heard every, you know, excuse and every reason under the sun.
Speaker:And 99 percent of the time, after we work with them and
Speaker:coach them, and don't push them.
Speaker:You know, we, we take it step by step where people are comfortable from to the
Speaker:next step where they're comfortable from.
Speaker:But think of this as like personal trainers and if you go to your
Speaker:personal trainer and you're like, Oh, I did two pushups and I'm tired
Speaker:and you go, Oh, don't worry about it.
Speaker:Come back tomorrow.
Speaker:You don't want that.
Speaker:You want to go, I reckon you could do two more.
Speaker:Let's just do two more and see how you go, and you do two more and you
Speaker:go, I feel good about myself now, you know, and then you improve, right?
Speaker:So we're here to push and assist you to go to the next step without breaking you.
Speaker:We don't want you to be sore tomorrow and not come back.
Speaker:And so we do that and we guide people through this process.
Speaker:And because I've done it at mean times and I've worked with people like them,
Speaker:you know, that builds a lot of trust.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:And and all business is selling trust.
Speaker:That's that's essentially what we're communicating.
Speaker:And your real estate example is a really good one.
Speaker:My mom passed away.
Speaker:We sold our house a few years ago and You know, as three kids, we're like, okay,
Speaker:who are we going to get to sell a house?
Speaker:And we were going to talk to a few people and one agency in our area,
Speaker:you know, is quite dominating.
Speaker:It's, it's been there a long time.
Speaker:And so we talked to a few of them and I walked in and he's like, ah, Andrew.
Speaker:And he knew me because he was in the year below me at school, at high school
Speaker:in that area where I went to school.
Speaker:And so we had a great chat and I go.
Speaker:He's the one, you know, I mean, because I instantly felt like he would look after me
Speaker:and I could trust him because I've known him, you know, kind of for a long time.
Speaker:And they did an amazing job, you know, and other people might have done an
Speaker:amazing job, but I don't know them.
Speaker:And so I don't really know if they've got my best interests at heart.
Speaker:And that's.
Speaker:That's a personal intuition.
Speaker:It's because it made me think of another aspect of why we chose
Speaker:that particular agent when you said that was because we actually didn't
Speaker:know any of the three of them.
Speaker:We deliberately made a decision to not choose someone that we knew and we
Speaker:wanted to go with someone independent and the person that walked in the door.
Speaker:said, Oh, I love your place.
Speaker:I love what you've done here.
Speaker:And said, Oh, you must be this and that.
Speaker:And, and had a discussion with us, like actually looked interested in what we
Speaker:were, what we were doing and what we were about and related a couple of stories.
Speaker:Whereas the other people were just kind of ho hum.
Speaker:And just didn't, weren't even, you know, our place was just, wasn't a home.
Speaker:It was just another thing that they were selling and they weren't really interested
Speaker:in who they were selling it for.
Speaker:And that's the thing too, right.
Speaker:Is about personal brand is that it's your own person, but it's the interest
Speaker:that you show and understanding the other person that you're dealing with.
Speaker:And might you.
Speaker:100%.
Speaker:We only work with people who are passionate about their business,
Speaker:because if you're not passionate about your business, this system won't work.
Speaker:If you don't really care about your customers and you don't really have
Speaker:enthusiasm to help them, the process we have just doesn't work as well.
Speaker:Because if you just want to make some money and sell some widgets, there's
Speaker:that's, that's for other people.
Speaker:Because when you're talking passionately about something and there's a
Speaker:feeling, you can't bullshit that.
Speaker:You know, you can see in people's faces and we do a lot of video work and that.
Speaker:Is worth more than anything is to is to get that genuineness So when
Speaker:you said the real estate guy sat down and started disparaging people
Speaker:i'd go the first thing is to go.
Speaker:Hi How you going?
Speaker:How's your day?
Speaker:What do you want?
Speaker:Tell me about yourself like surely that's That's the opening They
Speaker:don't care about your price.
Speaker:I want to go.
Speaker:How do they know what you want if they don't ask you and, and that, you know,
Speaker:what we, we find and I find is, and look, I learned this the hard way.
Speaker:When I first started, I, you know, I felt like I had to sell and, you know,
Speaker:cause I was inexperienced and I was in sales and corporate and, and so forth.
Speaker:But when I stopped from sitting across from thinking about the deal
Speaker:that I want to close and went and sat around with my client and go,
Speaker:tell me what you want to achieve.
Speaker:And I'll see what I can do to help.
Speaker:As soon as I stopped selling, started helping.
Speaker:I've just got more clients.
Speaker:It just worked better because then they're buying.
Speaker:They, I want them to say to me at the end of the conversation,
Speaker:Oh, that was really good.
Speaker:How do we work together?
Speaker:And then I'll go, okay, well, there's lots of different options and,
Speaker:you know, give them some options.
Speaker:And then they normally go to the next step.
Speaker:And then we do some assessment and then we go to the next step and,
Speaker:and we work it out organically.
Speaker:Rather than me trying to presume what they want and convince them to buy it.
Speaker:No one wants that.
Speaker:So don't do it.
Speaker:You know, they wouldn't be sitting there if they didn't have a problem.
Speaker:You want to sell your house, right?
Speaker:You just want to sell it with someone who you can trust.
Speaker:You just want to get a reasonable result, you know?
Speaker:And if you're going to get someone who's going to, you know, let's say
Speaker:that you're the real estate agent, someone's going to really crunch you
Speaker:on price and really, they're not a good customer in the first place.
Speaker:They don't want you, right?
Speaker:You know, I, I, I can't think of an, you know, time recently when
Speaker:a client after talking together and going through the process has
Speaker:gone, I'm going to get three quotes.
Speaker:Because what I offer is quite unique and differentiated and special,
Speaker:not called marketing, but, but the way we do things is, is very, very
Speaker:unique for the people we do it for.
Speaker:And there really isn't anybody who's exactly like me.
Speaker:There's no one exactly like you, Anthony.
Speaker:There's no one exactly like most of our clients, but people don't get to
Speaker:see that because we won't open up, you know, and, and share a few things,
Speaker:you know, sometimes the difference is that you, you know, you coach your,
Speaker:your, daughter's basketball team and they do the same thing and you're
Speaker:in the same, like, similarities.
Speaker:The fact that we went to school together, the fact that you believe the same
Speaker:things, the fact that you share the same values is far more important than one
Speaker:percent cost in a, in a real estate deal.
Speaker:So, so, and we forget that.
Speaker:We forget that they're humans.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:We could talk for hours and hours and maybe we'll do that
Speaker:in future episodes and things.
Speaker:There's two things that I wanted to ask you before we, we wrap things up.
Speaker:So the most important thing, first of all, is the book.
Speaker:Tell us about the book, because first of all, I know it's been a
Speaker:labor of love for you that it's taken a while to get it there.
Speaker:And the book's finally, finally out.
Speaker:And so to tell us about it.
Speaker:Yeah, thanks.
Speaker:I actually wrote the first book 12 years ago, when I first launched the business,
Speaker:and that was an arduous experience.
Speaker:You know, I didn't have a coach.
Speaker:I sort of, you know, tried to just muddle away myself and, you know, I got
Speaker:a good result, but geez, it was hard.
Speaker:This book, although it was hard, it was not challenging.
Speaker:If you know what I mean.
Speaker:So it wasn't difficult because, you know, it's hard work, but when you know what
Speaker:you're doing and you're enjoying the process, it's actually very rewarding.
Speaker:So it took me a year from, from get go to, to, you know, doing our
Speaker:book launch a couple of weeks ago called Creating a Powerful Business.
Speaker:And it's basically everything I've learned over, you know, 12 years of
Speaker:doing this for clients about how, how to start and scale a business.
Speaker:It's actually aimed at corporate escapees.
Speaker:So for small solopreneurs, individuals who want to start a
Speaker:business and scale it to some degree.
Speaker:You know, I'm going to write another book for our bigger
Speaker:business clients in, in future.
Speaker:But this is, this was a major product and, you know, it really represents the
Speaker:thing I love to do the most, which is help an individual find their passion.
Speaker:Because, you know, you probably say this a lot as well, mate, that I get a lot of
Speaker:people who work for big companies or for other people for a long period of time
Speaker:and they've done it for the honorable reasons of supporting a family or to, you
Speaker:know, perhaps the house or to, you know, maybe just because they think they should.
Speaker:But then they reach a point in their lives and like, you know, I don't want to do
Speaker:that anymore and it's time for me time.
Speaker:And that could be at any age, you know, I had a 30 year old downstairs
Speaker:today who used to be an accountant, doesn't want to do accounting anymore,
Speaker:wants to do something different.
Speaker:And so, you know, And it was my first meeting with her, she's a
Speaker:friend of a friend, and I gave her a book and I said, it's all in here.
Speaker:You can go do it yourself if you want.
Speaker:Yeah, it's literally every step in the process in, in, in quite a lot of detail.
Speaker:But most people find that challenging still, and so they want some assistance.
Speaker:And so they normally they'll give me a call and we'll, you know, work out a
Speaker:way to assist them through that process.
Speaker:And we're going to run a group coaching program coming up soon
Speaker:called Bob Build Your Own Business.
Speaker:Which I used to teach and I started a lot of businesses with
Speaker:it, but I'm bringing it back.
Speaker:Post COVID.
Speaker:Because there's just people that keep asking me to do it.
Speaker:So the book is that representation of basically how to figure out what you
Speaker:want to do, make sure it's aligned to your values, your lifestyle, you
Speaker:know, your passion, your future.
Speaker:It's going to give you what you want, income wise, time wise, and then
Speaker:a really robust process to do it.
Speaker:You know, I've done marketing for a long time, but not only that,
Speaker:I've done a lot of business stuff.
Speaker:You know, entrepreneurship and sort of more commercial areas.
Speaker:So it's a bit of that, but it's mostly the marketing process.
Speaker:And, you know, the truth is that if you don't know how to get clients.
Speaker:then it's really arduous to start a small business because, you
Speaker:know, funnily enough, without any money, it becomes quite difficult.
Speaker:So we focus and lean in heavy on that part of it.
Speaker:And we talk about productization of things, but, you know, we'll leave
Speaker:the business consultancy to your accountants or your business advisors.
Speaker:And it's, and it's a comprehensive process of which you can get elements
Speaker:delivered by whoever you want.
Speaker:You know, you do podcasts, you might have someone who writes blogs
Speaker:for you, you know, your sister might be an expert web designer.
Speaker:So it doesn't mean you have to do everything with a certain
Speaker:person, it's just a system.
Speaker:And if you run through the system, I know that in 12 weeks I can get you started
Speaker:business and get you your first client.
Speaker:From nothing, because I've done it before and I've got lots of testimonials
Speaker:from people who have done the same.
Speaker:So the book is the sort of centrepiece of that and just
Speaker:getting everything out of my head.
Speaker:And it's kind of cool because I worked with my cousin on, who's,
Speaker:who's been in publishing for 35 years, and he's, he was my coach
Speaker:because everyone needs a coach, right?
Speaker:And, yeah, it's, it's a labor of love, and it's got a lot of me in there, and
Speaker:this is the only thing I was most nervous about is, you know, I, I start with my
Speaker:journey and, you know, I wrestled with that quite a bit because I've had an
Speaker:unusual upbringing, and, you know, we've all had our challenges and our, and our,
Speaker:you know, good things that have happened.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:You know, being about personal branding, I get quite personal and that's a bit
Speaker:that I was most nervous about, but the feedback I've had is that that's
Speaker:the most valuable bit and that's, you know, it's quite interesting, isn't it?
Speaker:If you be a bit vulnerable, share a few things, you know,
Speaker:it's not just business advice.
Speaker:It's now, you know, they can really resonate and understand
Speaker:why and how we do things.
Speaker:So it's been pretty cool.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:Creating a powerful business.
Speaker:I recommend everyone to get a hold of it.
Speaker:We will, we'll of course include the details in the show notes of
Speaker:how to get a hold of those things.
Speaker:And just to, to wrap things up is I know we kind of danced around
Speaker:this idea of e attraction which is what we've been talking about.
Speaker:And I'm I'm wanting to tie that into the question that I ask everyone at
Speaker:the end of the podcast, which is what is the aha moment that people have
Speaker:when they start working with you?
Speaker:And I, I gather that some of that idea of that e attraction that we've
Speaker:started talking about is, is where it happens, where the magic happens.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think the, the, and generally in our workshops, everyone has at
Speaker:least one aha moment of like, Oh, I didn't realize I was doing it wrong.
Speaker:And it's the personalization.
Speaker:But it's less is more.
Speaker:Like, we find people get so wrapped up in doing so many things and they
Speaker:don't have just a simple process of how do we talk to our right customer.
Speaker:They don't have it.
Speaker:They've overcomplicated it.
Speaker:There's 24 steps.
Speaker:I'm like, we don't need that.
Speaker:And so we actually power it back.
Speaker:We go delete that system, stop paying for this, do this.
Speaker:And we make a nice, simple, robust, repeatable process.
Speaker:Because if you can't do it simply and repeatably, it's not working.
Speaker:If there's 24 steps in the process, how do you know which bit's not working?
Speaker:Which is not working.
Speaker:So we, we simplify it and they're just like, Oh, because it's like, Oh,
Speaker:I don't need to be an expert in, you know, every CRM and a click funnel
Speaker:and a this content engine and meta.
Speaker:And they go, no, no, you just do these four things and you'll get clients.
Speaker:And they're like, Oh, and it's, you know, and it works and then we can
Speaker:add some things into automate, but not until you've got it working.
Speaker:Why automate something that doesn't work?
Speaker:Very, very true.
Speaker:Henry, thank you so much, it's been amazing talking to you so many valuable
Speaker:things in there, so many more things that we can talk about, so we'll
Speaker:make another time to do it again in a future episode but for now, thank you
Speaker:so much for being part of Biz Bites.
Speaker:Mate, thanks for having me on, appreciate it.
Speaker:Hey, thanks for listening to Biz Bites.
Speaker:We hope you enjoyed the program.
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