Episode 107
Rethinking Careers: Navigating Job Transitions and the Rise of with Tony Pisanelli | Biz Bites
Feeling stuck in your career? Worried about the future of work? This episode of Biz Bites features career reinvention expert Tony Pisanelli, who shares practical strategies for navigating career transitions, job loss, and the impact of AI.
Discover how to proactively manage your career, find your purpose, and even explore entrepreneurship.
PLUS, bonus insights on leadership!
Don't miss this informative episode of Biz Bites! Listen to the full episode now and access exclusive bonus content. Subscribe to our channel for more valuable insights and business tips.
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Connect with Tony on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonypisanelli/
Check out his website - www.tonypisanelli.com
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Transcript
Navigating career reinvention shifts strategies and entrepreneurship.
Speaker:This is a compelling conversation with reinvention specialist, Tony Pisanelli.
Speaker:He's worked with executives and senior professionals at critical career junctures
Speaker:and the discussion, we explore the themes of career transition, job loss,
Speaker:and the impact of AI on employment.
Speaker:He's got a very unique approach to career coaching, focusing on the importance
Speaker:of proactively managing one's career and the difference between those who
Speaker:fall into crisis, losing their job and those who thrive by having a plan B.
Speaker:We also talk about not just losing your job, but what if you
Speaker:want to change your business?
Speaker:There are lots of personal anecdotes and practical advice.
Speaker:on how individuals can navigate career upheavals and find new
Speaker:paths aligned with passions.
Speaker:There's also some bonus content you don't want to miss on the
Speaker:role of entrepreneurship and leadership in career development.
Speaker:Let's get into Biz Bites.
Speaker:Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Biz Bites.
Speaker:And this time, I think we're going to explore something a
Speaker:little bit different to what we've explored on Biz Bites in the past.
Speaker:And I think it's a really important area to be thinking about careers and changes
Speaker:that happen as a result of all of that and entrepreneurship all of those things.
Speaker:We've got our guest, Tony, who we've got to know each other a little
Speaker:bit over the last maybe year or so.
Speaker:So Tony, welcome to the program.
Speaker:Thank you, Anthony.
Speaker:Delighted to join you.
Speaker:And I think the best thing to do is we always do on the program is get
Speaker:you to introduce yourself to the audience and tell us a little bit about
Speaker:who you are and what you're about.
Speaker:Alright, I'm a career reinvention specialist working with executives and
Speaker:senior professionals predominantly, whose careers hit a, whose careers have arrived
Speaker:at a critical juncture if you like.
Speaker:The path they've been on to date.
Speaker:Is not the path that's going to be going forward.
Speaker:They've either potentially lost their job, are anxious that it could happen
Speaker:to them sooner rather than later, or they've just become tired and burnt
Speaker:out from the accumulated years of really a hard slog at operating at the
Speaker:executive levels in an organization.
Speaker:So we look at what the future could look like for them as they, uh, look at
Speaker:making some sort of transition if that is not already happened, unless someone's
Speaker:already made that decision for them.
Speaker:Yeah that's the interesting thing, isn't it?
Speaker:That someone may have made that decision for them.
Speaker:And I think this is the reason I wanted to bring this topic to our audience,
Speaker:particularly as well, is that there is the idea that people are losing their jobs
Speaker:is Interesting enough in a market where unemployment is quite low, but there is
Speaker:this concept at the moment, particularly because we've got AI coming in.
Speaker:So there's fears of jobs being lost or changing at least as a result of it.
Speaker:But also what's astounded me when I've looked into it is that there's
Speaker:something like 300, 000, more than 300, 000 businesses that will shut
Speaker:down in Australia alone each year.
Speaker:And for those listening in other parts of the world, I'm sure it's not that bad.
Speaker:Different where you are as well.
Speaker:It's quite staggering how many of those things happen.
Speaker:And so part of that process is where do you go from here?
Speaker:True.
Speaker:To answer that sort of question,
Speaker:my time in the corporate trenches revealed to me something really important.
Speaker:A lot of people work their jobs, Anthony, they don't actually
Speaker:proactively manage their careers.
Speaker:In a business context, it's the same as what Michael Gerber said.
Speaker:People work in their business.
Speaker:They don't work on it, same principle.
Speaker:And therefore the failure situation could be quite a crisis scenario for people.
Speaker:Now, I saw a certain type of individual when I was in the corporate trenches
Speaker:that sort of managed to separate themselves out from the crowd.
Speaker:They weren't necessarily the high flying corporate executive
Speaker:who was so invested in and committed to their career.
Speaker:When the day arrived that they lost their job.
Speaker:They fell into crisis because they hadn't foreseen that event.
Speaker:They'd seen it happen to others but didn't think it was going to happen to them.
Speaker:Somehow maybe they thought they were a little bit more special.
Speaker:Okay, and they lost their identity, they lost their daily structure,
Speaker:they lost their sense of purpose.
Speaker:They lost all the status and power that goes with having a senior role.
Speaker:Then there was another sort of person who I call the
Speaker:entrepreneurial minded type person.
Speaker:They were developing alternate career paths for themselves
Speaker:beyond the corporate landscape.
Speaker:And therefore, if that day arrived where the company said, see you
Speaker:later, it wasn't a big deal.
Speaker:They would just activate their plan B.
Speaker:Okay, which is the path I followed.
Speaker:I decided to leave corporate life in 2015 and start a career coaching
Speaker:business because I knew there was a problem in the employment world where
Speaker:people didn't manage their careers.
Speaker:One.
Speaker:And two, I observed that the solution that was being offered wasn't complete.
Speaker:So what was the solution?
Speaker:These companies, these employers would send their people to our placement
Speaker:firms to update their resume, polish their interview skills, give them
Speaker:the latest job search strategies.
Speaker:But these people are bleeding, Anthony.
Speaker:They're hurting.
Speaker:Some people are going on drinking binges and engaging in other abusive behaviours.
Speaker:Some are in a very dark place.
Speaker:We hope you're enjoying listening to the Biz Bites podcast.
Speaker:Have you ever thought about having your own podcast, one for your
Speaker:business where your brilliance is exposed to the rest of the world?
Speaker:We'll come talk to us at Podcasts Done For You.
Speaker:That's what we're all about.
Speaker:We even offer a service where I'll anchor the program for you.
Speaker:So all you have to do is show up for a conversation, but don't worry about that.
Speaker:We will do everything to design a program that suits you.
Speaker:From the strategy right through to publishing and of
Speaker:course helping you share it.
Speaker:Come talk to us, podcastdoneforyou.
Speaker:com.
Speaker:au, details in the show notes below.
Speaker:Now, back to Biz Bites.
Speaker:Some people are going on drinking binges and engaging in other abusive behaviours.
Speaker:Some are in a very dark place.
Speaker:The last thing they need is an updated resume.
Speaker:They're trying to get their head around what happened, why it happened to
Speaker:them and where did they go from here.
Speaker:Do I still actually want to be in the corporate landscape?
Speaker:And that's why I've differentiated myself in providing this sort of
Speaker:career service rather than the traditional employment advisor that
Speaker:is helping you for the next job.
Speaker:I think what's really fascinating to me, Tony, and I'm is that if we'd have
Speaker:had this conversation two weeks ago, I would have been thinking, Oh, I'm
Speaker:wondering if I know anyone who's in this.
Speaker:space or not.
Speaker:But we didn't have the conversation two weeks ago.
Speaker:We're having it now.
Speaker:And in the past three days prior to this, and even though we hadn't, we
Speaker:planned this ages ago, in the last three days, I've had two conversations
Speaker:with two different people who are exactly in exactly this situation.
Speaker:One who has been in his particular position for a long time And has now
Speaker:took an opportunity to move out of there, but lots of other things have
Speaker:happened around him and has created a deal of anxiety and things around it.
Speaker:And he's really at a career crossroads.
Speaker:He's in his fifties, doesn't know what he wants to do.
Speaker:The other person was caught completely unawares.
Speaker:The investors pulled out of the business and.
Speaker:All of those people, the entire team, I think, was have lost their jobs.
Speaker:And it was interesting in the difference between the two people.
Speaker:One, as I explained, really at a bit of a crossroads.
Speaker:The other person was like if their business has pulled, if the investors
Speaker:have pulled out of that, doesn't mean the clients aren't still there.
Speaker:Let's maybe we'll get together and let's go and service those clients without
Speaker:those investors and do our own thing.
Speaker:And it's a bit like there being, even though they were caught
Speaker:unawares, there's a backup plan that is not too difficult to activate.
Speaker:So it was interesting.
Speaker:It's interesting to me that those two extremes of what you're
Speaker:talking about came out purely by accident in the last few days.
Speaker:Yes, obviously they've enhanced this interview by a few little stories and
Speaker:nuggets that add to the situation.
Speaker:Yeah, and I've saw a lot of that in my time in corporate.
Speaker:People caught, exactly as you said, caught unawares.
Speaker:When we know, it's a natural dynamic of the corporate, the employment landscape.
Speaker:It's, yeah, it isn't it?
Speaker:It's, and it, and, but it is interesting.
Speaker:That and I think we're seeing it even more, particularly after,
Speaker:after COVID, what happened during COVID was a lot of people became
Speaker:consultants and, but they really just created another job for themselves.
Speaker:Some of those have gone back into the bit absorbed back into the
Speaker:corporate landscape, but all of these people are still doing a job.
Speaker:They haven't really worked out if it's a.
Speaker:career path and if it's where they really want to be, if they're
Speaker:actually, if it's something they're actually passionate about.
Speaker:And it's something you and I touched on just briefly before we turned the
Speaker:microphone on about the fact that, look, I'm incredibly passionate
Speaker:about podcasting and it's something that's taken me back full circle.
Speaker:And it took me a while to realize that I've done a whole lot of things
Speaker:in terms of under the marketing umbrella that I enjoy doing.
Speaker:But I'm probably not as passionate about as doing this particular role.
Speaker:And I think it's important, isn't it, to at any point in your career, no
Speaker:matter where you are, to try and work out what is actually your passion.
Speaker:What do you want to be doing?
Speaker:What is the and.
Speaker:To have a backup plan because you just don't know.
Speaker:And typically you mentioned the person in their fifties, there tends to be a
Speaker:natural sort of evolution that occurs during a person's career, Anthony.
Speaker:So I look at the, there's five sort of stages that a typical career goes through.
Speaker:So there's the.
Speaker:Initial phase where you are getting the hell of the ropes.
Speaker:You start a new job in a large organization and you're the new
Speaker:kid in town and you're a learner.
Speaker:Okay, and then you progress through and you grow and you're In a development
Speaker:stage and then you'll reach a maturity level if you like, so that's your
Speaker:third level and then if you follow it, there's starts to be a bit of a decline.
Speaker:Okay, so we hit a bit of a dissension point where some of these executives,
Speaker:not all start bathing in the glory, if you like, of past successes.
Speaker:Okay, I've done it all.
Speaker:I'm now have deserved to put my feet up a bit and then
Speaker:there's, so that's the decline.
Speaker:And the final stage is it comes to an end.
Speaker:The entrepreneur tends to bypass that decline phase and the end phase because
Speaker:they're always learning and growing.
Speaker:They don't stop.
Speaker:There's always the next challenge
Speaker:and that's the key today.
Speaker:You mentioned, AI coming along and taking jobs.
Speaker:AI is just a form of technology.
Speaker:I remember I started working in the early 80s and I remember because I was on a
Speaker:graduate program on the time, at the time, Anthony, and we would rotate through the
Speaker:different departments in the company.
Speaker:And the, my employer had 90, 000 people.
Speaker:And every time there was a CPI increase, there was people on
Speaker:the floor, there was 90 of them.
Speaker:They would have to update each person's pay on a card,
Speaker:okay?
Speaker:And then the next quarter, so they would take a quarter to do that, and
Speaker:then the next quarter there would be the next CPI increase and they
Speaker:just, it would just come along.
Speaker:Then the computer came along.
Speaker:And someone at a corporate level could just press one button
Speaker:and everyone's pay is updated.
Speaker:So 90 jobs or thereabouts went out the door.
Speaker:So whether it's basic, the basic computer or AI, it doesn't matter.
Speaker:You could be wiped out.
Speaker:What's your plan?
Speaker:It's a really interesting one.
Speaker:I, it's one good example.
Speaker:I went to a event just recently where a particular business demonstrated that
Speaker:they had a big team of salespeople.
Speaker:That's now down to two because they're using a eyes.
Speaker:To receive the phone calls and to engage with people and much more effective
Speaker:for them, much more cost effective, but also much better conversion
Speaker:rate, interestingly enough, as well.
Speaker:And so does that mean that all salespeople are gone?
Speaker:No, definitely not.
Speaker:This is a lower ticket item in a monthly subscription.
Speaker:So it's not someone selling, services and things that are going to be
Speaker:worth thousands, but it's a good example of where there will be roles
Speaker:and positions that will disappear.
Speaker:But there are plenty of new roles that are being created as
Speaker:a result of some of these things.
Speaker:And whether that's, that's the interesting thing.
Speaker:Even using your example of payroll is that it's allowed more of a
Speaker:focus on some of the human elements.
Speaker:So areas that were people didn't have time for in the business that
Speaker:do help the performance of teams.
Speaker:Now can be focused on because the stuff that was taking a lot of time
Speaker:now doesn't take the time and so I think it's also about perspective and
Speaker:that's great for a business going.
Speaker:We can take our energy out of this and put it into this.
Speaker:So we both we were more efficient and we work better.
Speaker:But what does it do to the individuals?
Speaker:Because That's the interesting example of what you pointed to there is saying,
Speaker:okay, the person that was doing the pay slips, do they want to go into an area
Speaker:that might be more an HR style role than a typical payroll position as an example.
Speaker:So it's having that idea of where you want to be and what the other.
Speaker:Opportunity might be is so important, isn't it?
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Some people who lost their jobs from that payroll function grew themselves
Speaker:into other roles within the company.
Speaker:And those who weren't prepared to adapt, innovate and grow
Speaker:were rushed out the door.
Speaker:So that's the secret really is, it's not the, AI is not the problem.
Speaker:Technology is not the problem.
Speaker:It's a person's ability to foresee these events, plan for them, adapt
Speaker:and utilise them to their advantage.
Speaker:That's the key.
Speaker:How do you engage with someone and get to the point where they understand
Speaker:or Can drill down to where they want to go, what actually is the
Speaker:right move for them, whether it's a preemptive strike or whether it's a
Speaker:or whether it's something that's being forced in a particular situation.
Speaker:One gentleman that I was recently working with.
Speaker:High Flying Executive.
Speaker:One day he was being promised to have his leadership training in America paid for.
Speaker:So he's based in Australia.
Speaker:And then circumstances all of a sudden changed.
Speaker:Which that can happen in a large organisation.
Speaker:And found himself out the door.
Speaker:So here you go from one minute sort of being, Um, the rising star and then all
Speaker:of a sudden you're on the scrapheap and two complete polarities if you like.
Speaker:How do you handle that situation?
Speaker:He was devastated, as he to use his own words felt like running a hot
Speaker:bath and getting the razor blades out.
Speaker:So he wasn't in a good shape.
Speaker:So in working with him, I went back and said, okay, forget Let's
Speaker:cast aside your executive role.
Speaker:Who are you as a person?
Speaker:So my answer to your question is, I try and connect this
Speaker:individual back to themselves.
Speaker:Because one of the problems that happens when you're in corporate for so long,
Speaker:and it happened to me, you become so identified, and many in particular,
Speaker:with the role, the title, the job.
Speaker:You forget, you lose yourself.
Speaker:On this interview, Anthony is being Anthony and Tony is being Tony.
Speaker:You're not playing a role, I'm not playing another role.
Speaker:We're being ourselves.
Speaker:But that sort of gets lost when we play titles and roles and formalities.
Speaker:So I reconnect my clients back to who they are.
Speaker:And we discovered with this gentleman that he was a teacher.
Speaker:What he really loved most about the whole, his career journey and
Speaker:what he really, the common themes was he loved teaching people.
Speaker:And passing that on.
Speaker:So we identified that he'd been in corporate, had a lot of business
Speaker:knowledge, sales knowledge, marketing knowledge, operation knowledge,
Speaker:strategic planning knowledge.
Speaker:It made sense that he could fashion out of that, take all those learning
Speaker:and become a business coach to small business owners or medium business owners.
Speaker:So yes, he lost his job.
Speaker:But he didn't lose all the core skills, his areas of excellence.
Speaker:So it just became a question of reinventing all those
Speaker:elements into something else.
Speaker:And he also knew a lot of small businesses go out of business.
Speaker:They need this.
Speaker:foresight that he brought to the table.
Speaker:So I like to quote the Persian philosopher Rumi, who said, what's lost
Speaker:is the oyster shell, but not the pearl.
Speaker:When you lose a job, you've lost the shell, but the pearl, all your skills,
Speaker:capabilities, wisdom, knowledge, experience, It's still with you.
Speaker:You haven't lost that.
Speaker:We're just going to repackage it somewhere else.
Speaker:Once they see that they haven't lost everything.
Speaker:They've just lost a bit of a package.
Speaker:They can move on.
Speaker:That's going to make a terrific promo for a show given my surname.
Speaker:Or just Pearl.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I actually, that wasn't even deliberate.
Speaker:No, I love that.
Speaker:I love that quote.
Speaker:The interesting thing I think about it is that people define themselves often when
Speaker:you go out and you meet them, who are you?
Speaker:You say, who are you?
Speaker:And they define themselves by their name and their job and then occasionally
Speaker:that there might be a, that they might be a parent or a, partner, etc.
Speaker:But.
Speaker:It's usually things that don't, that they've fallen into quite often.
Speaker:Many people have fallen into a career path and ticking a box and they've almost
Speaker:convinced themselves that they like doing it, but when you really scratch
Speaker:the surface, the passion isn't there.
Speaker:And I was, it's interesting for me because I think I was lucky enough
Speaker:to work in an industry where you had to be passionate to be in it.
Speaker:I worked for a number of years with a company that's now called Invocare, that
Speaker:owns a large percentage of the funeral industry in Australia, and spent a lot
Speaker:of time talking to funeral directors.
Speaker:That's a profession you don't go into just to tick a box.
Speaker:You might go and pick up a job at at a retail outlet to tick a box and
Speaker:earn some money for a period of time.
Speaker:And there's a bunch of different jobs that you might do like that,
Speaker:but you don't tend to pick up a job in the funeral home unless that's
Speaker:something you're passionate about.
Speaker:And I love the fact that those people that work in there are that
Speaker:passionate about what they do.
Speaker:And I think it's a good example of.
Speaker:how you get a level of service.
Speaker:And I think most people have a, a particularly under what are trying
Speaker:and not great circumstances more often than not have a a positive experience
Speaker:as far as the interaction with the funeral home staff is concerned.
Speaker:And it's because those people are passionate about what they do.
Speaker:I don't think I've met too many that I would say that would
Speaker:fall into a category where they.
Speaker:Not that I'd say 99 percent 99 percent of them are there because of that,
Speaker:that they're passionate about it.
Speaker:And it's interesting to me that so many people fall into careers,
Speaker:and they don't even realize that they're just doing it because.
Speaker:And it's not, and some go through an entire career like that, don't they?
Speaker:They just, it's not till after they retire where they almost reflect upon
Speaker:the fact going, yeah, my, my parents told me I had to go and study and do this.
Speaker:So I did this and that's what I was for my entire career.
Speaker:But actually I really wanted to be a, whatever that might be.
Speaker:Yes, as part of my coaching sort of philosophy, I see it that
Speaker:there's three levels to a career.
Speaker:They're not necessarily an organizational level, they're just
Speaker:a a level of maturity if you like, or from a bigger life perspective.
Speaker:So the first level is a job, it's a job for an income.
Speaker:You're not going to do that if you're working for a funeral parlor.
Speaker:If you're just turning up each day To clock on and clock off.
Speaker:You're not doing that in that industry.
Speaker:So that's the first level.
Speaker:And some people do that.
Speaker:That a lot of junior people are doing casual jobs.
Speaker:It's fine in that way, but you've still got to provide
Speaker:a level of customer service.
Speaker:Obviously you just don't just turn up.
Speaker:So that's the job level.
Speaker:The second level I call it is more the career level, where it's also
Speaker:about growth, advancement, and taking on greater responsibility.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And being a service to the, your employer.
Speaker:And then there's the third level again, which is called the calling level,
Speaker:Anthony, which is what you're doing now.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:With this podcast, it's what's your contribution to humanity
Speaker:or to people or to society.
Speaker:So that's another level again.
Speaker:And cause one of the things that has been found with executives, they get to the
Speaker:top of the hill and they ask themselves the question, is this all there is?
Speaker:There's still something missing.
Speaker:And my answer is no, there is something else and it's, what's your purpose?
Speaker:What's your contribution?
Speaker:What's your reason for being?
Speaker:So can I just give you an example?
Speaker:I was working with a gentleman who was a builder, owned his own building business,
Speaker:and in good times, made lucrative profits and was therefore very reluctant
Speaker:to walk away from the building game.
Speaker:But as he got to his mid 40s and into the late 40s, his
Speaker:body began to give up on him.
Speaker:He could not, no longer carry those big lumps of timber.
Speaker:And he did his knee in, whatever, on the big window panels
Speaker:and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker:So his body was telling him, look, it's really time to get out.
Speaker:So the question became having to accept a lower income and doing something else.
Speaker:So what was that something else?
Speaker:We had a conversation and what he identified, Anthony, was during the
Speaker:course of the day, the thing that he most enjoyed wasn't so much handing
Speaker:the keys over to the homeowner when it was, the job was completed.
Speaker:Some builders have told me that's what their most satisfaction is,
Speaker:creating a new home for someone.
Speaker:For him, it was actually interacting with his apprentices.
Speaker:The young men in their twenties, mid twenties, who were, At the early
Speaker:stages of their life and having significant challenges with finances,
Speaker:relationships and whatever else, right?
Speaker:And he loved mentoring them,
Speaker:okay?
Speaker:So then it became a question, okay, if this is what you're passionate about, how
Speaker:can we make sure that in your next phase of your career, that component is there?
Speaker:So that led to him getting TAFE qualifications, where he became
Speaker:a teacher in a TAFE college.
Speaker:Teaching young apprentices about the building game and carpentry, but along
Speaker:the way mentoring them, and he got the opportunity to work with a young New
Speaker:Zealand young man who came from a broken family where his father had been injured.
Speaker:In jail and his brothers got into motorist bike gangs and all that, but
Speaker:he was able to take this young man aside and create a straight line for
Speaker:him, become responsible, save money got married, has now got three children.
Speaker:And he was telling me recently, and now this young man is mentoring.
Speaker:Young teenage New Zealand children.
Speaker:So can you see how this builder is now operating at a calling level?
Speaker:He's had to sacrifice some income, but he's now making a contribution.
Speaker:And that's giving him a sense of satisfaction and joy.
Speaker:Hey, I'm actually impacting someone's life.
Speaker:That could have quite easily gone off the rails given his family's dynamics and
Speaker:actually created a future path for him.
Speaker:And a safe home for his partner and stuff.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I'm going to repeat a quote that I think is my most repeated
Speaker:quote on the podcast series.
Speaker:So listeners, forgive me for this one.
Speaker:But it's a guest that appeared on our program some time back Paul Dunn, who's
Speaker:been a mentor to me for a long time.
Speaker:And the first time I heard him speak, His quote was, your career is nothing more
Speaker:than a collection of selected pivotal moments, and it's amazed me how many times
Speaker:that has come up over my over the course of talking to people, and it seems so
Speaker:appropriate again in this conversation here to bring that up because you can look
Speaker:at something where there is There's an end point that's either being forced upon you
Speaker:or you've had a realization, but it is a connection to whatever the next step is.
Speaker:And often, if you look back and reflect on what other pivotal moments
Speaker:there have been in your career, you actually can connect the dots to
Speaker:something that is quite different.
Speaker:To what you might have thought it's just another step along the same ladder.
Speaker:It could be to something quite different when you reflect back on it.
Speaker:And often those moments are not, I got the job.
Speaker:Or I got a promotion, it's usually something that happened
Speaker:within the context of that.
Speaker:And I've, that I'm, I won't bore listeners with my set of ones, but
Speaker:there is certainly one moment in working in the funeral home company
Speaker:that has got nothing to do with the normal day to day of what I did.
Speaker:It was some, it was a story about something that happened that I helped
Speaker:out and it was just At the time, it didn't even register as something, but
Speaker:it's interesting how I look back on nearly seven years at that business,
Speaker:and that's a moment that continues to stand out for me amongst, many others
Speaker:that you would argue were more important as far as a career advancement was
Speaker:concerned, but certainly as far as the career path is concerned, went, Oh, that
Speaker:makes sense why that moment stood out.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:I call them defining moments.
Speaker:And I had my own defining moments to lead to where I am today.
Speaker:Yeah, please share that because I'm interested in the story because
Speaker:this is such a fascinating path.
Speaker:Okay, so my defining moments, my, so I worked for in a finance role,
Speaker:a certain part of my career, and my manager, who was an executive,
Speaker:had to go on four weeks leave.
Speaker:So that left me.
Speaker:To report to the company's deputy chief finance officer, which
Speaker:was a bit stressful because he was a very demanding individual.
Speaker:So anyway, we're a couple, we're in a couple of days into this sort of
Speaker:exercise and one evening it was 6 30 PM.
Speaker:I walked out of my office.
Speaker:down a narrow little hallway to make my way to the lifts to go home that evening.
Speaker:And over my shoulder, I heard a voice.
Speaker:And the voice said, where do you think you're going?
Speaker:I haven't finished with you yet.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:At which point I obviously knew who it was because everyone
Speaker:else had left for the day.
Speaker:I had to turn back and do another round.
Speaker:It was, One of the longest hours because I was, it was my own personal time that
Speaker:was now being encroached and I realized I wasn't just working for my employer.
Speaker:I was working for someone else's ambitions because he wanted to become the CFO
Speaker:and I realized in that sort of reflective time that we're really.
Speaker:As a corporate employee, I was caught in the predator, what I call the
Speaker:predator what's known as a predator prey cycle, where people prey on you.
Speaker:They either bully you or they make unrealistic time, demands
Speaker:on your time and whatever.
Speaker:And I knew one day I needed to set up a situation where I
Speaker:would leave to break that cycle.
Speaker:William Blake who lived many years ago, who was a poet, said,
Speaker:unless I create my own system.
Speaker:I'll be a slave to someone else's.
Speaker:And that's why I wanted to, it was my defining moment to one day create my
Speaker:own employment situation where I can earn an income where I wasn't having
Speaker:someone look over my shoulder and say, I haven't finished with you yet.
Speaker:Now as much as that was a difficult moment, there was a gift in that.
Speaker:Where I realized I'm operating in a predator prey cycle.
Speaker:So here I was predator, prey to the predator who was the executive.
Speaker:The executive is predator to the organization.
Speaker:They could, get rid of him at any time.
Speaker:The organization is prey to the employment landscape, the economy,
Speaker:technology changes, industry dynamics, government decisions.
Speaker:So we, your working life is really operating within a predator prey cycle.
Speaker:And if you understand that, then you'll manage your career differently, which is
Speaker:what I point out to a lot of my clients.
Speaker:And that's just the reality of life.
Speaker:And I love that you talk about entrepreneurship as well in the
Speaker:context of all of this as well, because that's obviously what you've done.
Speaker:You've gone out of working for someone and seeing that you were working for
Speaker:someone else's career advancement to eventually getting out and doing your
Speaker:own thing, which is an entrepreneurial.
Speaker:Thinking aspect and as well, it's about leadership that's People
Speaker:often shy away from, don't they?
Speaker:Because there's many people that you just go through their entire career
Speaker:and go, I don't want to be a leader, I just want to just do my thing, which is
Speaker:there's nothing wrong with that at all.
Speaker:But there is this idea, isn't there as well, that out of some of this
Speaker:adversity for many people is this idea that they can become a leader within
Speaker:their own right and it might be,
Speaker:Yes, if you're running your own business, you're a leader because there's
Speaker:the actual delivery of the coaching service, then there's a marketing
Speaker:and the selling and the promotion.
Speaker:Building relationships is a key part of it.
Speaker:So you're really operating at a more leader level.
Speaker:Level than just a technician who's delivering a service.
Speaker:Now we're going to go a little bit more into the entrepreneurial thinking and the
Speaker:philosophy behind that as part of some bonus content that we're going to put up
Speaker:after the, after this particular episode.
Speaker:So I'm going to encourage everyone to look in the show notes and they'll be able to
Speaker:find access to that little bit of extra discussion that we will have later on.
Speaker:But for now, I just want to continue on.
Speaker:And and talk about this idea of exploring new careers and how that struggle
Speaker:particularly when the whole idea is quite daunting of saying, I know I
Speaker:don't want to do what I'm doing, how do I find what I'm going to do next?
Speaker:That is such a difficult space to be in.
Speaker:How daunting is it for people when it's something completely
Speaker:new, as you alluded to before?
Speaker:It's not always a straightforward leap, is it?
Speaker:No, it it does require Anthony a lot of self reflection, what
Speaker:they call knowing yourself.
Speaker:So I had a situation recently where I was speaking to a lady who'd worked,
Speaker:had recently joined an organization, a business, and six, eight weeks
Speaker:in, she started asking the question, I'm not sure that I'm going to be
Speaker:here another six or eight weeks.
Speaker:And I said what's going on?
Speaker:She goes, um.
Speaker:There's a lot of issues with the owner of the business unless we do
Speaker:things his way, he's never happy.
Speaker:It's my, his way or the highway, there's no latitude for her
Speaker:to be creative or innovative.
Speaker:It's always his way.
Speaker:And it's almost like a bit of a tyrannical loop that she found herself.
Speaker:And the question I asked her to help her make a decision whether she would
Speaker:work her way through that challenge with her business owner or leave was the
Speaker:question and it's the passion question if you like, Anthony is your heart in it?
Speaker:Okay, you talked about the funeral partner business.
Speaker:If you're working in that business, your heart's either in it and you're
Speaker:invested in someone else's journey where they're seeing off their loved ones or.
Speaker:You're not invested and you're doing yourself a disservice by being there
Speaker:and the people you're trying to serve.
Speaker:So the question is your heart in it or not in it?
Speaker:So if you're deciding between two career choices, I get them to stand up and say,
Speaker:okay, step into this one, this choice.
Speaker:How strongly connected are you at the heart level with this choice?
Speaker:That might give me a seven out step out of that one, shake it off and step into.
Speaker:The next option that you're considering, how strongly do you feel heart connected?
Speaker:8, 9, 10.
Speaker:And then you move into that strongest one where your heart is
Speaker:great, has the greatest pull to it.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So it's really about the heart aspect.
Speaker:And the other aspect is I would say is, what is your natural core gift?
Speaker:Where are you naturally inclined that it doesn't actually feel
Speaker:like work?
Speaker:It's so interesting that you're saying all of this as well.
Speaker:We talked about my two examples that I gave you.
Speaker:There's actually a third that's happened in this past week as well,
Speaker:because he's moved into that stage.
Speaker:So he's.
Speaker:Had the time of reflection, actually did what was really interesting and
Speaker:I wanted to get your take on this.
Speaker:He actually decided that he needed a mental break and took a job.
Speaker:In this particular case that was driving and it wasn't an Uber service,
Speaker:but he was driving around and having a reasonable, reasonably good time and
Speaker:then set himself a deadline as to when to move out of that when he felt ready
Speaker:to move and is now in a passionate area.
Speaker:And I've seen, having spoken to him originally a few years ago when he was
Speaker:still in that, that, we're just getting in getting out of that bad space in terms
Speaker:of, okay, I need to get out of this job and I need to move to now where he is.
Speaker:And he's passionate about what he's doing.
Speaker:It's such a huge shift.
Speaker:And I wanted to ask about that transition period as well.
Speaker:Is it sometimes that you need that space to be able to go
Speaker:and do something different?
Speaker:For a little while because it's not the you need to give yourself some
Speaker:mental space to, to think about it.
Speaker:Yes that's so true.
Speaker:There is a, there's a space in between one world finishing Anthony
Speaker:and another world beginning.
Speaker:I think it's called liminality or something of that effect, where it's
Speaker:this in between phase, where you almost got to chill out a bit, okay?
Speaker:You're releasing, in my case, I spent almost 12 months, letting go of the
Speaker:corporate uniform, the corporate persona, the way I spoke as a corporate
Speaker:robot, before I could step into and just be So there is that, release
Speaker:and then re engagement period.
Speaker:So yes, it's the, and that is a valid one.
Speaker:Some people get lost in that, not sure in what to make of it, but I think it's
Speaker:a valid part of the transition, yes.
Speaker:As we wrap things up, I'm just going to remind everyone there's two we're going
Speaker:to have a, an extra bonus bit of content.
Speaker:We're going to talk about leadership, entrepreneurship and they're really
Speaker:important aspects as far as a career philosophy is concerned.
Speaker:So we're going to continue that in the bonus content.
Speaker:So you're going to have to click on the link below in the show
Speaker:notes to be able to access that.
Speaker:In the meantime, I just wanted to wrap things up for the main part
Speaker:of the podcast, Tony, by asking you to Question that I like to ask
Speaker:all of my guests on the program.
Speaker:What is the aha moment that people have when they come to work with you,
Speaker:that you wish more people knew they were going to have when that happens?
Speaker:The aha moment is that job loss is not the end of the world.
Speaker:It's the beginning of the next one.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:It's.
Speaker:It's simple, but it's a big idea for people to get their heads around,
Speaker:and I think as we finish this up and saying that I wanted to have this
Speaker:discussion because this is important for people that whether they're,
Speaker:whether you're someone that's employed.
Speaker:Whether you have got people that are employed by you, because sometimes
Speaker:you recognize this in the team that you've got working for you, that they
Speaker:are terrific people, but they're in the wrong job and and sometimes it's
Speaker:because you own the business and you want to transition out of it.
Speaker:And I think all of these things are really important things to consider.
Speaker:And there's so much that I got out of this discussion and I hope a lot
Speaker:of people got the same out of it.
Speaker:So thank you so much for being so generous with your time and sharing.
Speaker:Some amazing stories, not just about about some of the people you've worked
Speaker:with, but your own story as well.
Speaker:Thanks, Anthony.
Speaker:I'd love to do it again one day if the opportunity arises.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:And we're about to do it.
Speaker:For those that are going to click on the bonus content, we're going
Speaker:to go and do that right now.
Speaker:For now Tony, thank you for being part of the main Bizbytes program.
Speaker:And we thank everyone and ask them to subscribe.
Speaker:Click on the bonus bit of content link.
Speaker:And of course, stay tuned for the next episode of Biz Bites.
Speaker:Hey, thanks for listening to Biz Bites.
Speaker:We hope you enjoyed the program.
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