Episode 142
From Corporate Burnout to 7-Figure Business: Srimoyee's Journey
In this episode of Biz Bites for Thought Leaders, host Anthony Perl sits down with special guest Srimoyee Deymerwar, founder of Lumen, to discuss a critical blind spot: Why do companies ignore the marketing power of their own people? Re will show us how strategic talent marketing is the key to building trust, boosting retention, and aligning your reputation with your values.
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Connect with Srimoyee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srimoyeed/
Check out their website here: https://brandslumen.com/
Book your complimentary 45-minute session with Lumen: https://brandslumen.com/
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Transcript
From corporate burnout to seven
Speaker:Figure Business re's journey.
Speaker:Welcome back to Biz Bites for
Speaker:Thought Leaders.
Speaker:I'm your host, Anthony Perl, and
Speaker:today we are sitting down with Srimoyee
Speaker:who just launched Lumen, an employee
Speaker:branding and talent strategy firm that's
Speaker:only a few months old, but already
Speaker:making waves.
Speaker:She's about to share why companies spend
Speaker:millions marketing their products, but.
Speaker:Get about the important product
Speaker:their people.
Speaker:We'll explore how talent marketing
Speaker:isn't just about hiring.
Speaker:It's about building trust, retention,
Speaker:reputation, and so many more things
Speaker:to make sure it aligns with your
Speaker:values, your ethics.
Speaker:So much detail in this episode.
Speaker:Have pen and paper ready for this
Speaker:episode of Biz Bites for Thought Leaders.
Speaker:And hey, don't forget to subscribe
Speaker:while you are there.
Speaker:Hello everyone and welcome to another
Speaker:episode of Biz Bites for Thought Leaders,
Speaker:and I'm delighted to have SRI joining
Speaker:me today, and I know we're gonna
Speaker:have an amazing discussion about
Speaker:all things marketing and the fact that
Speaker:her business is very new, which is a
Speaker:little bit different for biz bites for
Speaker:thought leaders.
Speaker:But I thought this was a great journey
Speaker:to take people on.
Speaker:So welcome to the program.
Speaker:Thank you so much Anthony.
Speaker:It's great to be here.
Speaker:Lumen is an employer branding and talent
Speaker:strategy firm that I just started.
Speaker:It's just been three months for me.
Speaker:And yes, it's not a recruitment
Speaker:agency like most think it to be.
Speaker:We try to help organizations
Speaker:attract, engage, and convert the
Speaker:right people by communicating what
Speaker:makes them a great place to work.
Speaker:And so happy to be here with you today.
Speaker:No, look and it's great and there's
Speaker:so much there to unpack as a starting
Speaker:point before we even get into your
Speaker:journey is to taking you there because,
Speaker:we hear a lot of people talking about
Speaker:cultural fits and things these days,
Speaker:but it's it, there's a difference between
Speaker:using the words and it actually
Speaker:meaning something.
Speaker:And I think that's the key
Speaker:here, isn't it?
Speaker:Because it's the difference between
Speaker:marketing that is just made up terms
Speaker:because we think that's the right
Speaker:thing and authentic based content.
Speaker:And that's really what you are
Speaker:talking about here.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:You know what we spend like millions
Speaker:marketing our products, right?
Speaker:But too often I feel, and many of us
Speaker:feel that we forget the most important
Speaker:product we have, which is our people.
Speaker:And talent is the engine of
Speaker:every business.
Speaker:You can have the best product, but
Speaker:if it's your people.
Speaker:Who make it real, authentic.
Speaker:And most companies I think invest
Speaker:heavily in marketing their products,
Speaker:ex and experience working in So your
Speaker:employer brand, it's just not a
Speaker:campaign, it's like one of campaign.
Speaker:It's actually the foundation
Speaker:of trust, the retention, and the
Speaker:reputation as well.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's something that is.
Speaker:Underestimated, I think is probably
Speaker:the best way of describing in value.
Speaker:And I think part of that is business,
Speaker:has been very cautious previously
Speaker:about marketing team because they're
Speaker:worried that they might move on.
Speaker:They're worried what happens if
Speaker:they do move on.
Speaker:And so it's just been kept very,
Speaker:close to their heart and not including
Speaker:other people.
Speaker:And then other people's voices
Speaker:don't seem to count as much and
Speaker:it's and it's this steamroll effect
Speaker:of really what is.
Speaker:Old fashioned ideas and ones that
Speaker:in this day and age when it's so
Speaker:important to build relationships, I
Speaker:think more important than ever before
Speaker:marketing is about relationship
Speaker:building with your audience.
Speaker:And hence the reason why we're doing
Speaker:podcasting for a lot of people as well,
Speaker:because it's such a fundamental thing to
Speaker:be doing, including internally as well
Speaker:as externally.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:And I think talent marketing, like
Speaker:we call, is, it just doesn't help
Speaker:someone to hire, it shapes who stays
Speaker:with you, what kind of experience
Speaker:a candidate is experiencing
Speaker:with your brand.
Speaker:So when I feel that when talent
Speaker:marketing is treated like as a
Speaker:business strategy, hiring stops
Speaker:becoming reactive.
Speaker:So it becomes intentional brand
Speaker:driven and aligned with broader
Speaker:business goals.
Speaker:So it's so important like a
Speaker:product marketing.
Speaker:Now think of a product that you
Speaker:would launch, right?
Speaker:When you do launch the product, it's
Speaker:important for you to understand
Speaker:your audience, the messaging.
Speaker:You would do some product testing.
Speaker:It's the same way when you're trying
Speaker:to hire, we need to do those tests in
Speaker:places to understand the audience, what
Speaker:they're thinking.
Speaker:What is the candidate going
Speaker:through, and why should they apply to
Speaker:your organization?
Speaker:Yeah, and I think this is the really
Speaker:important thing for business to
Speaker:remember is that.
Speaker:The right talent is everything.
Speaker:I know we've spoken a little bit about
Speaker:this in the past on the program
Speaker:how, having the right people is not
Speaker:necessarily about having technically
Speaker:the best person in the, in a particular
Speaker:role there, because if they are not a
Speaker:cultural fit with the organization, it
Speaker:can have much more of a negative impact
Speaker:than the positive of the fact that they
Speaker:may be brilliant at what they do.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:And here's where the strategy
Speaker:portion comes in.
Speaker:Now, suppose, we are trying to
Speaker:hire a key team.
Speaker:You, we could just do a job post and we
Speaker:hope that, the right people are coming in
Speaker:or we do something like a talent brand
Speaker:study Know, which is so important,
Speaker:which tells you what the candidates or
Speaker:employees perceive about the company.
Speaker:What's real, what's aspirational,
Speaker:what are the gaps?
Speaker:And once you do that, you could
Speaker:craft employee value proposition or EVP.
Speaker:The, that's just not a promise
Speaker:in words, right?
Speaker:So you are living that experience
Speaker:that you are going to give to people
Speaker:when this is like, when it's clear
Speaker:people join for the right reason.
Speaker:Your culture becomes tangible
Speaker:and candidate, especially Gen Z,
Speaker:trust you before they even apply.
Speaker:And today's candidates the Gen
Speaker:Zs specifically are evaluating
Speaker:companies through a very different lens.
Speaker:They're, they are just not looking
Speaker:at job ads.
Speaker:They're not, they're actually looking at
Speaker:some values, purpose and proof, and I'll
Speaker:be happy to share some stats that,
Speaker:I came over while doing some research
Speaker:as we move on.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely, definitely.
Speaker:Definitely interested in those.
Speaker:And I think just to pick up on that
Speaker:point though, that I think there have
Speaker:been this kind of, this ideal,
Speaker:supposed, ideal working place that
Speaker:was constructed by big companies like
Speaker:Google, for example, where there's
Speaker:perception that, you go and there's
Speaker:rooms where you can, I don't play pool
Speaker:and you can sit in different chairs and
Speaker:you can have coffee and whatever else it
Speaker:is that, that whole perception of what
Speaker:a workplace should.
Speaker:Be like, has changed and therefore the
Speaker:younger generations have grown up with
Speaker:that perception that it should
Speaker:be different.
Speaker:And indeed, since COVID, we've
Speaker:obviously undergone this change again,
Speaker:where well do I actually have to
Speaker:be in an office, whatever that
Speaker:office looks like, and do I, if I
Speaker:do I have to be there nine to five,
Speaker:Monday to Friday?
Speaker:Or can it look like something different?
Speaker:And I think the expectation of
Speaker:people out there is completely different
Speaker:to what it was, six or seven years
Speaker:ago, let alone what it was 20
Speaker:or 30 years ago.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:In fact, my previous workplace, we
Speaker:worked remotely.
Speaker:So I was handling the talent marketing
Speaker:for apac as well as Americas.
Speaker:And we were all connected
Speaker:virtually, right?
Speaker:It was never an expectation, and
Speaker:that was something that was driven
Speaker:from the leadership itself that, if
Speaker:you could get the work done.
Speaker:In a small, smarter ways.
Speaker:It's not necessarily we would have
Speaker:to come to work.
Speaker:So it gave us a lot of flexibility
Speaker:because time zones was different for me
Speaker:based in Australia, we are much ahead
Speaker:in the time zone.
Speaker:So it definitely gave that space
Speaker:and a comfort zone as well to
Speaker:finish certain things that you
Speaker:would like to do.
Speaker:It could be your person's space
Speaker:before you could just come in and
Speaker:start your day.
Speaker:So I think that has been amazing
Speaker:and candidates are looking into those
Speaker:flexible options as well as we speak.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I like to think I was probably the
Speaker:lucky enough to be the forerunner to
Speaker:some of this and I wouldn't say I
Speaker:was well among the first, I definitely
Speaker:wasn't because I remember many
Speaker:years ago hearing an interview.
Speaker:With someone, and I'm sure it was
Speaker:someone who worked in a higher level
Speaker:at Channel nine at the time, who
Speaker:was spending quite a bit of time
Speaker:working from home.
Speaker:And I thought, oh, that's an
Speaker:interesting idea.
Speaker:And I was employed at a particular
Speaker:time to work in a in an office that
Speaker:was 45 minutes to an hour away from
Speaker:where I lived, depending on traffic
Speaker:that could increase even further.
Speaker:And I went to the CEO at the time
Speaker:and I said, look.
Speaker:It's not very efficient for me
Speaker:to try and be here at nine o'clock in
Speaker:the morning if you allow me to work
Speaker:from home until nine 30 in the morning
Speaker:when the school zones are finished.
Speaker:I can get an hour and a half work in.
Speaker:I can work for the 45 minutes while I'm
Speaker:in the car by taking phone calls and.
Speaker:Similarly, if I leave at the end
Speaker:of the day a little bit earlier to
Speaker:avoid that peak hour traffic,
Speaker:you'll get more benefit out of that.
Speaker:And we trialed it and it
Speaker:unfortunately, it worked and it
Speaker:was great for a while and it was.
Speaker:So I think that's an important thing
Speaker:as well with all of this, is that with.
Speaker:The mix isn't cut and dry as
Speaker:it used to be.
Speaker:It, it used to be literally you're
Speaker:in the office nine to five,
Speaker:Monday to Friday.
Speaker:That's what we pay you for and that's
Speaker:what you'll be, and and certain offices
Speaker:you'll be there till six or seven
Speaker:o'clock at night and certain off certain
Speaker:offices, you'll be there from seven
Speaker:30 in the morning.
Speaker:But whatever it is, that was
Speaker:the expectation.
Speaker:But now that blend of I can go and do
Speaker:a few things for a couple of hours.
Speaker:I can come back to work and work later
Speaker:in the evening.
Speaker:That flexibility is there.
Speaker:But the balance with that is what
Speaker:the expectation of the employer is as
Speaker:well, because the danger is that they
Speaker:expect that you're now available 24 7.
Speaker:And so we haven't quite found that
Speaker:really nice way of making it
Speaker:work for everyone and designing it
Speaker:differently almost for everyone.
Speaker:That's exactly like a great point
Speaker:that you you know.
Speaker:You've taken up here.
Speaker:Like I was talking about the stats,
Speaker:there is some interesting proof
Speaker:points which says that the
Speaker:current sort of talent, which is
Speaker:the Gen Zs right, are completely
Speaker:different.
Speaker:And in fact, there are 44%
Speaker:of this group have rejected an
Speaker:employer because the company did align
Speaker:with their ethics.
Speaker:Now imagine you mentioned on your
Speaker:career site or somewhere about
Speaker:this, that we are flexible and, all
Speaker:of those words.
Speaker:But when it comes to implementation,
Speaker:it's not they see and it's just
Speaker:not about Gen Z.
Speaker:So whatever promises you give on your
Speaker:marketing strategy, your career site,
Speaker:your social media, it's the living
Speaker:proof of what you're trying to say.
Speaker:And the minute there is a
Speaker:disconnect things just fall apart.
Speaker:So it's important that, how do we
Speaker:ensure that, okay, if we are saying,
Speaker:talking about flexibility, that
Speaker:it is there, and to what extent
Speaker:should that be is something that the
Speaker:younger generation, they are, they live
Speaker:by that actually.
Speaker:So yes, it's so very important.
Speaker:And I think it's almost like we're
Speaker:writing new rules of the game.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:As far as marketing is concerned,
Speaker:isn't it?
Speaker:Because it used to be that this was
Speaker:the trendy word, so we'll throw
Speaker:it out there.
Speaker:It's like one of my biggest bugbears
Speaker:in, in marketing is that every other
Speaker:business has, we are the leading.
Speaker:In whatever it might be.
Speaker:Who says you're the leading in it?
Speaker:What actual criteria have you met to
Speaker:suggest that you are the leader?
Speaker:Some can genuinely say that I get that,
Speaker:but that is a very small handful that
Speaker:have actually been through a process
Speaker:that says that they are the leading,
Speaker:because even a, even an award, even a
Speaker:competition, okay, you might have
Speaker:been the leader of the people
Speaker:that entered it.
Speaker:But doesn't make you necessarily
Speaker:the industry leader or the leader in
Speaker:a particular space and in what context
Speaker:that people don't usually give it.
Speaker:I'm the leading whatever, but
Speaker:yeah, I might be the leading one
Speaker:in this street.
Speaker:That's the, that's, that might be true,
Speaker:but it's, it doesn't wash anymore.
Speaker:I think that kind of phrasing and
Speaker:terminology doesn't wash because people
Speaker:are looking for support to see
Speaker:that and saying, okay, if you're
Speaker:the leader, where am I seeing that?
Speaker:That is actually evident.
Speaker:And I think the same applies to all
Speaker:of that marketing terminology
Speaker:that exists in different areas.
Speaker:Bang on I couldn't just, we'll talk
Speaker:about this more when it comes to certain
Speaker:words that we keep on using repeatedly.
Speaker:Things like innovation,
Speaker:and these are very cliched in
Speaker:today's word.
Speaker:And if you take that to a job
Speaker:description, say, where would we
Speaker:use those words?
Speaker:Because the job descriptions are
Speaker:so heavy and it already gives and
Speaker:an imposter syndrome to many when they
Speaker:read, even if they're confident in
Speaker:applying, the minute these heavy words
Speaker:come into flow, it just am I too
Speaker:good to even apply?
Speaker:Am I good enough to apply for
Speaker:these roles?
Speaker:So I think it's time to shift, make.
Speaker:Easy.
Speaker:Some things that as per the job,
Speaker:what the skills are required, we have
Speaker:them do the real talks, have those
Speaker:real things that you know, matters.
Speaker:For example, that survey with the
Speaker:Gen Z also said that they need 88%.
Speaker:They would need a clear purpose what
Speaker:they would like to do in the job and
Speaker:feel satisfied.
Speaker:So it's just not about Gen Z. I
Speaker:think if today, me and you would read
Speaker:a job description.
Speaker:And it should be, wow, you know what?
Speaker:I feel connected and I think
Speaker:that's what it is.
Speaker:And not glorified words so to speak.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I, and I think it, it is so important
Speaker:to choose the phrasing correctly
Speaker:that matches in, I know, and I'm
Speaker:sure you've got examples of well
Speaker:as well of where, if you use the
Speaker:wrong terminology, the expectations
Speaker:of the people are different.
Speaker:That are applying to be with you and
Speaker:it ends in tears.
Speaker:I've definitely seen it.
Speaker:I remember an organization I was
Speaker:dealing with a few years ago, and they
Speaker:used a particular word quite heavily
Speaker:in a lot of their materials.
Speaker:And despite me having conversations
Speaker:with the CEO at the time saying,
Speaker:it's just not the right word for
Speaker:your business.
Speaker:It's not a criticism of your business.
Speaker:It's just not the right word for it.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:It's the right word.
Speaker:And I saw over a two year period, the the
Speaker:turnover in staff was astronomical.
Speaker:And when that word changed, so too,
Speaker:did the trend for staff to come and
Speaker:go as often as they were because
Speaker:they were attracted by something that
Speaker:wasn't really.
Speaker:True to the business.
Speaker:And again, not a criticism of the
Speaker:business or the person that was in
Speaker:charge of it, merely just the wrong word,
Speaker:reflecting something that they perhaps
Speaker:thought they should be rather than what
Speaker:they actually are.
Speaker:I completely, agree here to that
Speaker:and coming from I was attending
Speaker:a conference and it wasn't.
Speaker:It would, it was a networking
Speaker:event wherein this young graduate
Speaker:spoke up and said, you know what?
Speaker:I do pretty good in my college.
Speaker:I get good numbers, I get everything,
Speaker:and she's now applying for jobs.
Speaker:And she mentioned this.
Speaker:The minute I open the jobs to
Speaker:apply, I pause and think if I'm good
Speaker:at it because.
Speaker:It's not even matching to what my,
Speaker:it's, it might be the role that you
Speaker:open up, but then again, those heavy
Speaker:words make me feel like doubt myself
Speaker:even to applaud.
Speaker:So I think it has to be, those real
Speaker:insight has to be those authentic
Speaker:messaging and.
Speaker:The best people are your employees.
Speaker:So if they are the ones who come out
Speaker:and they are sharing their experience,
Speaker:that authenticity matters a lot.
Speaker:So it becomes more credible and people
Speaker:are able to resonate to what they are
Speaker:saying and they are applying to you.
Speaker:Yeah and so I guess that's the thing
Speaker:where we maybe start looking at some of
Speaker:the statistics and things that you've
Speaker:got there because.
Speaker:Again, we wanna put some authenticity to
Speaker:what you're saying here because it is
Speaker:a very different landscape and I
Speaker:think many many businesses are not
Speaker:hearing it because.
Speaker:They've got a mix of staff, right?
Speaker:They've got, it's, they've got people
Speaker:that are old and young, different
Speaker:generations, so they're catering
Speaker:to all of those.
Speaker:And that in itself can be a difficult
Speaker:thing because there can be a
Speaker:huge difference between it.
Speaker:I just while you are bringing up
Speaker:some of those stats.
Speaker:I certainly recall a time when I was
Speaker:working for an organization and
Speaker:I hired someone.
Speaker:I had was just a three person
Speaker:team, so it was quite small.
Speaker:And I had someone who was working
Speaker:under me that was close to my age,
Speaker:and then we hired someone younger
Speaker:and I remember we were just having a
Speaker:casual conversation about influencers
Speaker:and TV shows and music and stuff,
Speaker:and this poor.
Speaker:A younger woman was looking at us just
Speaker:very blankly and completely lost.
Speaker:We were talking another language to
Speaker:her and equally she would be talking
Speaker:about stuff and we'd going, what
Speaker:are you saying?
Speaker:And that makes it hard when you're
Speaker:trying to build a culture and you're
Speaker:trying to show these different things.
Speaker:But I'm interested in some of the
Speaker:stats that you've got there as well.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So this survey or the study report
Speaker:that I was looking through, they
Speaker:specifically focused on Gen Z. So today's
Speaker:candidates how they are evaluating
Speaker:pri primarily our younger
Speaker:generation here.
Speaker:So I'll just read this through to you.
Speaker:They are, most of the Gen Zs are
Speaker:evaluating companies through a very
Speaker:different lens, as I mentioned
Speaker:earlier to you.
Speaker:So it's beyond even the job act.
Speaker:So 44% of Gen Zs are, je have
Speaker:rejected a employer because a company
Speaker:didn't align with their ethics.
Speaker:Now, that's a very big thing.
Speaker:I would have in my so many years of
Speaker:experience, ethics was always there,
Speaker:but it never played such a huge role.
Speaker:Right then you would have about 86% who
Speaker:said that they need a clear sense of
Speaker:purpose in their job to feel satisfied.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:We always wanted to be of, have that
Speaker:satisfaction to the kind of job that
Speaker:I was looking for too, but it was
Speaker:not predominantly on my top list.
Speaker:It was maybe on the fourth fifth.
Speaker:But looking at the way things are
Speaker:changing with the new generation,
Speaker:it is good for employers now to
Speaker:look and think how their messaging
Speaker:should be.
Speaker:Now, if the report also said that,
Speaker:75% of them, they actively weigh
Speaker:community engagement engagement and
Speaker:societal impact, not that heavy.
Speaker:We wouldn't have thought that would
Speaker:play such a huge role in their
Speaker:mindset while applying a job.
Speaker:So these are some very interesting
Speaker:data points for employers to
Speaker:consider because of the way hiring
Speaker:is now happening.
Speaker:And more we could talk about.
Speaker:How is the landscape of social media and
Speaker:content changing predominantly for
Speaker:this in a younger mindset as well
Speaker:as we speak?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Because the thing about anyone
Speaker:that's looking for somewhere to
Speaker:work, they're all a, they're almost
Speaker:interviewing you as the employer rather
Speaker:than the other way around these days.
Speaker:And they're looking at what you are
Speaker:talking about on social media
Speaker:in other places.
Speaker:And making some judgment calls
Speaker:around there because they're
Speaker:seeing through what might just
Speaker:be the marketing terminology
Speaker:and what is the reality there and.
Speaker:You talk about ethics and impact
Speaker:as well out beyond the actual job.
Speaker:I think that is an important thing
Speaker:to people as well.
Speaker:That there is a culture of giving
Speaker:in some way, shape, or form.
Speaker:We've certainly had on this program in
Speaker:the past, a shout out as I do every
Speaker:now and then to Paul Dunn from B one G
Speaker:one because B one G one is a great way
Speaker:that you can make an impact through a
Speaker:business and giving something to other
Speaker:parts of the world, but it is important.
Speaker:When I talk about ethics, that it's
Speaker:that it's beyond just you are
Speaker:doing the right thing in the way
Speaker:that you work.
Speaker:It's actually, you're going
Speaker:beyond that.
Speaker:It's not just ticking boxes.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Most organizations, we always have a
Speaker:part of corporate responsibility
Speaker:or CSR activities that we all do.
Speaker:But does it define me when I'm looking
Speaker:at a job, does it define that,
Speaker:okay how much of contribution this
Speaker:company is making?
Speaker:And it gives me then the deciding power
Speaker:to join a company.
Speaker:So I felt that it's a big shift.
Speaker:Nobody would, and when they're
Speaker:making a social media strategy, for
Speaker:example, to attract talent, then this
Speaker:plays a big role that you know, what
Speaker:CSR activities that they're doing, they
Speaker:make it as part of their content
Speaker:strategy too.
Speaker:So whoever is looking at
Speaker:applying, they would know, Hey,
Speaker:you know what this organization does.
Speaker:Do a lot in this space.
Speaker:So it is one of my decision making
Speaker:process of thought when I apply.
Speaker:Yeah and I think that when you are
Speaker:looking through all of those things,
Speaker:it's important that they're
Speaker:aligned with the business and that.
Speaker:Is where I think is a lot of businesses
Speaker:fall apart as well.
Speaker:I've certainly, again, we're
Speaker:going back into the past, but I
Speaker:remember working at an a fairly
Speaker:large organization and on the whim of
Speaker:the then marketing director who was.
Speaker:Personally very involved with a
Speaker:particular charity and for very
Speaker:valid reasons, and a very great
Speaker:charity at that, an international
Speaker:charity dragged the organization
Speaker:into a relationship with that charity.
Speaker:And it was a failure because it
Speaker:had no alignment with the business
Speaker:itself, as wonderful an organization
Speaker:as it was.
Speaker:It just didn't have any relevance.
Speaker:To the business and therefore nobody
Speaker:bought into it.
Speaker:And I think that's an important message
Speaker:as well, is that if you're going to
Speaker:align a business with something and a
Speaker:charity is one idea, but not the only
Speaker:idea, it whatever you are doing in
Speaker:marketing sense, it needs to be aligned
Speaker:with the business and where it's
Speaker:going and the core audience and what
Speaker:they think as well.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:True that because.
Speaker:It's just not about the candidates.
Speaker:And the business impact that you're
Speaker:mentioning here end of the day
Speaker:is the people who are making the
Speaker:changes as well.
Speaker:While we are looking at the
Speaker:content strategy with regards to
Speaker:CSR to probably attract talent,
Speaker:it's also client strategy as well.
Speaker:I'm sure clients would also be
Speaker:interested to see where we are
Speaker:contributing with regards to the
Speaker:society overall.
Speaker:Yeah, and I think it's so critical.
Speaker:That businesses think about all
Speaker:of these things because it also
Speaker:impacts their own course of action
Speaker:and their success.
Speaker:Because we've been talking about it
Speaker:in the context of employees, but the
Speaker:truth is that this has an impact in the
Speaker:context of clients and whoever is
Speaker:buying from them and partners and those
Speaker:things as well, because you want to
Speaker:be in a relationship with someone.
Speaker:That shares the same values as
Speaker:you, because the reality is you
Speaker:have competitors.
Speaker:We all have competitors.
Speaker:Why people choose you.
Speaker:Is because of you and who you
Speaker:are as a person, as a brand, as a
Speaker:business, and that filters out into
Speaker:the bigger world.
Speaker:And I believe that's becoming more and
Speaker:more important.
Speaker:I think AI is making it more
Speaker:important because yes, people are
Speaker:looking for that, which is different.
Speaker:That is true to who they are.
Speaker:That stands out from what is the
Speaker:AI driven content.
Speaker:Absolutely true that as well because
Speaker:in this aspect, specifically because
Speaker:you brought up the space of competitors
Speaker:everybody is looking into the, so your.
Speaker:Competition as to what they're doing.
Speaker:And specifically there is when you
Speaker:strategically do things with regards
Speaker:to keeping in mind the client
Speaker:perspective, the, the future candidate
Speaker:perspective, that's when
Speaker:everything that's what the strategy
Speaker:is all about.
Speaker:So I would again, reiterate that
Speaker:talent marketing is all about that.
Speaker:It is a strategy with regards
Speaker:to keeping business in mind.
Speaker:And now, in one of, one of the times
Speaker:where there could be a lot of content
Speaker:strategy build with regards to the
Speaker:client stories that you have in a way
Speaker:that your future candidates get.
Speaker:Attracted and say, wow, you know what,
Speaker:they have these kind of clients and
Speaker:this is what the employees, so it's,
Speaker:I feel it's like a holistic approach
Speaker:from business from client perspective,
Speaker:where then your employees and your
Speaker:future candidates, one in a hardship.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's such an area of underestimated
Speaker:value, and that's where I
Speaker:think it's about businesses knowing
Speaker:where to start from with this.
Speaker:Because we've been talking all around
Speaker:the idea of this, but the question
Speaker:is how do they actually get started
Speaker:on this and put, meat on the bone
Speaker:as it were, of what is really driving
Speaker:them and where that authenticity
Speaker:is because.
Speaker:It needs to come from a place of
Speaker:authenticity and there needs to be,
Speaker:people like yourself that is going to
Speaker:find what that is and take them
Speaker:through a process.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:And it is.
Speaker:That's what the beauty of
Speaker:talent marketing or recruitment
Speaker:marketing, employer branding
Speaker:is all about.
Speaker:It is about saying that as important
Speaker:is your product marketing or your
Speaker:client marketing.
Speaker:So is your talent marketing.
Speaker:How would you shape talents to ensure
Speaker:that they are the right people,
Speaker:you are trying to attract them while
Speaker:you are trying to it's even before you
Speaker:sit and you think about promoting
Speaker:those jobs outside, it's a step much
Speaker:ahead of that.
Speaker:Like even your thinking of the
Speaker:job ads that you would write.
Speaker:You, you keep thinking about
Speaker:how to ensure that this entire process
Speaker:comes into place.
Speaker:It is, it's about everything.
Speaker:So if you are giving the product
Speaker:client marketing importance,
Speaker:talent marketing has an equal
Speaker:space completely out to your.
Speaker:So let's go back a little bit because I
Speaker:want to give people a bit of a sense
Speaker:of your journey.
Speaker:'cause we talked in the beginning of
Speaker:the fact that this is a fairly new
Speaker:venture for you.
Speaker:So talk to me a little bit about
Speaker:where this journey came from and how
Speaker:you got to the point of establishing
Speaker:this where you saw the gap that
Speaker:was in the market.
Speaker:So you've been, actually was born
Speaker:out of redundancy and I think I give
Speaker:a lot to my journey.
Speaker:Of being redundant.
Speaker:I don't think otherwise.
Speaker:Human, which means light would come
Speaker:into being Now after the journey
Speaker:of being redundant, I was like, okay,
Speaker:you have very less, because the space
Speaker:is very niche.
Speaker:Not all organization are heavily
Speaker:investing on employee branding
Speaker:services and.
Speaker:That's where my story is to most
Speaker:organizations or talent leaders are
Speaker:that do not treat talent marketing
Speaker:or employ branding as a cosmetic
Speaker:afterthought.
Speaker:It has to be something that
Speaker:you blend in your process just
Speaker:like you would advertise or do
Speaker:marketing with any product out there.
Speaker:So I did see that, there was.
Speaker:Not, there was client marketing,
Speaker:there was product marketing,
Speaker:but the talent space is where
Speaker:it was missing.
Speaker:And of course there was less of
Speaker:roles in this EV space or employee
Speaker:branding space is when I thought
Speaker:that, I have had 15 years, 16 years
Speaker:of experience in this from starting
Speaker:employer branded services from ground
Speaker:up, so everything like, how should.
Speaker:The EVP messaging be how should a
Speaker:career side be?
Speaker:How should the candidate
Speaker:experience be?
Speaker:And of course, engage, attract
Speaker:everything together.
Speaker:So I was like, why not do something
Speaker:for the talent acquisition team?
Speaker:So I think Lumen is a solid partner to
Speaker:a talent acquisition team, the
Speaker:strategic partners.
Speaker:We try to tell you authentically
Speaker:how this could help you instead
Speaker:of that constant rush through
Speaker:applying chasing applications rather.
Speaker:Yeah, I think it's it's a wonderful
Speaker:thing that you're doing and it's
Speaker:interesting to me how you talk
Speaker:so openly about it coming out of
Speaker:redundancy, but it's amazing how.
Speaker:Often the great ideas come
Speaker:from there.
Speaker:And as, and I can't remember who
Speaker:to attribute this to, so apologies
Speaker:out there, but I know someone who
Speaker:told first told me this little piece,
Speaker:which says that, have you noticed
Speaker:how when things break they open?
Speaker:And I think it's so true that some
Speaker:of the best ideas have come out of
Speaker:exactly the kind of situation that you
Speaker:find yourself in.
Speaker:So tell me businesses that are
Speaker:sitting out there at the moment going,
Speaker:okay, I hear you.
Speaker:What are the immediate steps
Speaker:that they can and should be doing?
Speaker:So the first thing that you know, I
Speaker:tell any of the talent acquisition
Speaker:leaders or employer employers, whoever
Speaker:I meet, is that you can't fix hiring
Speaker:with more job ads.
Speaker:You fix it with clarity.
Speaker:So that's where I do a discovery session.
Speaker:And I try to take them through a
Speaker:journey of trying to understand what's
Speaker:taking them or what keeps them awake
Speaker:the night to fill in those numbers.
Speaker:Because I've been a recruiter myself
Speaker:in my earlier days, so I know when,
Speaker:businesses give you the requisition and
Speaker:you have to fill in certain roles
Speaker:and specifically in the tech.
Speaker:Space.
Speaker:It's not easy.
Speaker:So what I do is I do a discovery
Speaker:session where I ask them a whole lot
Speaker:of questions and try to understand
Speaker:what is there.
Speaker:Do they have a EVP?
Speaker:They don't have a EVP.
Speaker:Is it the candidate experience?
Speaker:Or sometimes I had a TA leader who said,
Speaker:Sri, I have a whole lot of applications
Speaker:coming in.
Speaker:So I said that's a great
Speaker:problem to have.
Speaker:But his challenge was something
Speaker:different.
Speaker:From having a whole lot of people
Speaker:applying, how does the candidate
Speaker:experience can feel broken when
Speaker:you have a lot of applications, right?
Speaker:So that clarity is where I'd like and
Speaker:I help TA leaders then think through
Speaker:coming back from the discovery
Speaker:sessions that I think this is what
Speaker:needs are fixed.
Speaker:These 1, 2, 3 things could
Speaker:help you fix it.
Speaker:Now some things can be.
Speaker:A little longer process.
Speaker:Some can be a quick fix.
Speaker:So that's accordingly how
Speaker:we shape it out for the leaders.
Speaker:Fantastic.
Speaker:We're gonna include some links on how
Speaker:people can get in touch with you in
Speaker:the show notes and some of the, that
Speaker:initial discovery session I think is
Speaker:an important thing for businesses
Speaker:to be doing, like dealing with to
Speaker:work with you on.
Speaker:So talk to me a little bit about
Speaker:the kind of.
Speaker:Ideal organizations that you are looking
Speaker:to work with, because of course
Speaker:there's a, there's such a range, right?
Speaker:I think what you've said today is
Speaker:relevant to someone who's having their
Speaker:first hire to someone that's, got
Speaker:hundreds of team.
Speaker:It's would be for each and any
Speaker:organizations.
Speaker:That is for my ideal customer, I would
Speaker:say, or a client would definitely
Speaker:be, I am focused very much on, the
Speaker:it and the tech world because that's
Speaker:where I've done most of my my work
Speaker:experience is there, but then it's just
Speaker:like shifting the coin if it is like
Speaker:an FMCG or if it's some other clients
Speaker:coming and they want to fix their hiring.
Speaker:So anybody who's trying to hire in,
Speaker:every situation is very different.
Speaker:Every TA leader that I speak has
Speaker:a very unique challenge that
Speaker:they come up with.
Speaker:It could be from hiring,
Speaker:they're having hiring problem.
Speaker:It could be candidate experience
Speaker:problem, it could be career sites.
Speaker:So depending on what that discovery
Speaker:session leads to, the solutions
Speaker:are given.
Speaker:But mostly anybody's trying
Speaker:to hire a hundred thousand, or they're
Speaker:trying to set up.
Speaker:Probably a center offshore because
Speaker:we are with my ki, with my experience
Speaker:over across multiple countries and
Speaker:regions, I do have that lens of how the
Speaker:local experience or the local candidates
Speaker:would actually look at or what
Speaker:would help them to get them going.
Speaker:Those numbers.
Speaker:Look, there's so many more things
Speaker:that we can talk about in this space,
Speaker:and I think it's a fascinating area.
Speaker:Again, reminded of people to check
Speaker:out the show notes of how to get in
Speaker:touch with Sri.
Speaker:Just one final question that I
Speaker:wanna ask you, and I ask this of all of
Speaker:my guests, and this is an interesting
Speaker:one to ask you because you're so
Speaker:new in the journey.
Speaker:So maybe it's a little bit more
Speaker:about what you wish than what is
Speaker:actually happening at the moment.
Speaker:'cause it's so early on.
Speaker:But the question is.
Speaker:What is the at heart moment that
Speaker:people have when they come to work
Speaker:with you that you wish and hope more
Speaker:people will know about in the future?
Speaker:So you'll have more people coming to
Speaker:knock on your door.
Speaker:I'd say this Anthony, that
Speaker:instead of, like treating
Speaker:the recruitment marketing or talent
Speaker:marketing, like as I mentioned
Speaker:as a cosmetic afterthought we
Speaker:need to see it as a strategic partner.
Speaker:And I think that wow moment is
Speaker:that the talent acquisition team
Speaker:feels, oh, she's one of us because she
Speaker:knows the trenches.
Speaker:There is something that I have dealt
Speaker:it in and out.
Speaker:So of course there are a lot of
Speaker:agencies who you can probably give
Speaker:your work outsource to, but unless
Speaker:you've been in that trenches of hiring
Speaker:or recruitment, you wouldn't
Speaker:understand the pain of the talent
Speaker:acquisition leaders.
Speaker:Like what it takes them to
Speaker:fill those roles and everything.
Speaker:A snap of a finger probably.
Speaker:So yes, I said that would be the aha.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Movement.
Speaker:Fantastic.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:I love everything that you've talked
Speaker:about today.
Speaker:It's so relevant and important.
Speaker:It stretches beyond just the
Speaker:internal employees.
Speaker:It also looks to outside
Speaker:relationships and it's a very
Speaker:specific kind of marketing that is
Speaker:becoming more and more important
Speaker:to organizations.
Speaker:So thank you for being an
Speaker:amazing guest on the program.
Speaker:I really appreciate it.
Speaker:Thank you so much, Anthony.
Speaker:It was great talking to you.
Speaker:Thank you so much and to everyone
Speaker:listen in.
Speaker:Don't forget to subscribe so you
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Speaker:for Thought Leaders.
Speaker:Until next time, we look forward to
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