Episode 127

Mortgage Broker Secrets: Building Trust and Long-Term Client Relationships | Expert Banking Insights with Eli

In this insightful episode of Biz Bites for Thought Leaders, host Anthony sits down with Eli Ajznenman, a seasoned mortgage broker with over 15 years of experience, to unpack the secrets of building trust and fostering long-term client relationships in the mortgage industry.

Eli dives into the current banking landscape, the challenges of switching banks, and the growing importance of non-bank lenders, revealing how client-focused service and specialised niches help brokers stand out. He also shares his passion for mentoring new brokers, aiming to elevate the industry's overall reputation.


This episode is packed with actionable lessons on customer service, relationship-building, and business strategy applicable across various fields.


Listen now and subscribe to Biz Bites for Thought Leaders for more invaluable insights!


***

Connect with Eli on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eliajzenman/ 

Learn more insightful advice from Eli on mortgage and finances, check out his website - lendersdomain.com.au 


_________________________________________________

Subscribe to the Anthony Perl hosts channel and the Biz Bites playlist for more inspiring interviews and transformative insights.


Connect with me on LinkedIn:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/adperl/ 

https://www.commtogether.com.au/


Learn more: https://www.commtogether.com.au/biz-bites/ 


Interested in having your own podcast? You can even have Anthony as the anchor of your very show.  Check out https://podcastsdoneforyou.com.au or the podcast on this channel ‪@anthonyperl_hosts‬ 



#financialtips #mortagebroker #podcastshow #podcastforthoughtleaders #podcasting



Transcript
Anthony:

Mortgage broker Secrets, building trust and long-term client relationships.

Anthony:

It's something we can all learn from no matter what business you're in.

Anthony:

I have a fascinating discussion for you today with Eli who is going to

Anthony:

talk not just about mortgage broking and some of the secrets behind banking

Anthony:

and building client relationships, but also about mentoring and the value that

Anthony:

that has in building the future for your business for other people as well.

Anthony:

And the give back that that has as well.

Anthony:

It is a really interesting discussion that we are gonna have today, and

Anthony:

there is something I promise you for every business thought leader to

Anthony:

gain from this particular episode.

Anthony:

So stay tuned for this episode of Biz Bites for Thought Leaders.

Anthony:

Well, hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Biz Bites for Thought

Anthony:

Leaders and I have a very special guest.

Anthony:

In fact, I don't think we've had someone in this category, uh, on the show in

Anthony:

the past, so I'm really interested to see where this conversation takes us.

Anthony:

Eli, welcome to the program.

Eli Ajzenman:

Hi Anthony.

Eli Ajzenman:

Thanks for having me on, as I will say.

Eli Ajzenman:

And, uh, um, so yes, my name's Eli and I'm a, um, mortgage

Eli Ajzenman:

broker extraordinaire supposedly.

Eli Ajzenman:

And um, so I've been doing that for probably about 15

Eli Ajzenman:

years, banking before that.

Eli Ajzenman:

And, uh, before that I was in small business myself, so I went across to

Eli Ajzenman:

the dark side at one stage when, uh, business was tough and banking was easier.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, but that's, could give me a good insight into sort of both, uh.

Eli Ajzenman:

Both sides of the coin and probably what has driven my, um, business

Eli Ajzenman:

for the last, uh, 15 years.

Anthony:

It's interesting, isn't it?

Anthony:

The banking sector probably gone through some ups and downs at the moment.

Anthony:

I mean, what's the assessment of the banking sector given the, you know,

Anthony:

the, the so-called global financial crisis and the, uh, cost of living

Anthony:

crisis and all these things that have happened in the last little while?

Eli Ajzenman:

I think banks work on the same premise.

Eli Ajzenman:

They've always had to retain, basically maintain their margin

Eli Ajzenman:

as best as possible, and, um.

Eli Ajzenman:

So they'll put out policies to make sure that's, that they're

Eli Ajzenman:

competitive in their space.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, not over competitive because they don't wanna be seen as the,

Eli Ajzenman:

you know, specifically the cheapest or, um, whatever that implies.

Eli Ajzenman:

But they certainly fight to keep, maintain their margins and, um, that reflects in

Eli Ajzenman:

their credit policy, credit appetite.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, obviously they're driven also by, um, government, um.

Eli Ajzenman:

Policy as well.

Eli Ajzenman:

And so they'll, I'm sure they make forward plans for any, um, all

Eli Ajzenman:

sorts of different, um, alternatives they might have to, uh, to do.

Eli Ajzenman:

But at the end of the day, they give Australia's unique in this space that

Eli Ajzenman:

banks give 70% of their, um, profit back to the back, to their shareholders.

Eli Ajzenman:

So, um, that's why most, a lot of people don't complain about the

Eli Ajzenman:

banks too much because if they're a bank shareholder, they're making

Eli Ajzenman:

good money, uh, on, on their shares.

Eli Ajzenman:

Whereas the rest of the world, you'll find banks will only give back maybe 25, 30,

Eli Ajzenman:

40% of their profit, and they retain the rest for their own growth and development.

Eli Ajzenman:

But anyway, uh, yeah, I think banks haven't changed in, in all time.

Eli Ajzenman:

They just, they just, they're pretty fluid with what they do.

Anthony:

I mean, it is an interesting idea, isn't it, in Australia, where,

Anthony:

where that, uh, it, it, it's often questioned by the public, I guess.

Anthony:

Who, who are they more concerned about the clients or the shareholders?

Anthony:

And, and that's a difficult one, isn't it?

Anthony:

Because, um, it's fine if you're, if you're sitting in

Anthony:

both camps, but not everyone is.

Anthony:

No,

Eli Ajzenman:

um, I think their first, I, I think first and foremost,

Eli Ajzenman:

it's always been the shareholders.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, and, uh, then they'll drive their policy around that to

Eli Ajzenman:

make sure that they're obviously not losing customer share.

Eli Ajzenman:

And, and we're talking mainly about the big banks, and I'll throw in

Eli Ajzenman:

Macquarie into there as well, because they still hold the lion's share

Eli Ajzenman:

of, uh, of, of, well in this case, mortgages in the Australian market.

Eli Ajzenman:

So, um, Commonwealth Bank being the largest of all.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so yeah, I think the shareholders are still.

Eli Ajzenman:

Primary focus, bottom line.

Eli Ajzenman:

I mean, you only have a look at their, this month they all

Eli Ajzenman:

released their profit, um, taking, you know, 4 billion, 3 billion.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, it's a massive amount of money, which means they've, and so they

Eli Ajzenman:

haven't actually gone backwards in the last 20 years, have they?

Eli Ajzenman:

So they're maintaining their margins, which is what they want to do.

Anthony:

Yeah, absolutely.

Anthony:

I mean, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's an interesting position.

Anthony:

For the public to decide where they go, because I think, you know,

Anthony:

we come round to the, to the big thing, which is lending money.

Anthony:

Because you know, when it comes to putting money into a bank account these days,

Anthony:

you are lucky to get very much interest.

Anthony:

You know, it's very little interest that you earn anyway.

Anthony:

So it's really about the lending side, which is the, um, thing

Anthony:

that most people think about in relation to banks these days, but.

Anthony:

There's a lot of alternatives now and, uh, that's, but how

Anthony:

real are those alternatives?

Anthony:

What's the, what's the breakup?

Anthony:

Is it still the banks dominating?

Eli Ajzenman:

In terms of share of, of, of, of market, yes.

Eli Ajzenman:

The banks will still dominate because they're still the reason people are

Eli Ajzenman:

tied to the banks because they've got, um, deposits, they've got,

Eli Ajzenman:

um, bank accounts tied with them.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, the rest of the non-banking sector, which are not what they call deposit

Eli Ajzenman:

taking institutions, um, their only re uh, connection to those their clients is.

Eli Ajzenman:

Generally lending.

Eli Ajzenman:

So they, they very rarely offer anything else.

Eli Ajzenman:

So you still have to go back to the bank to do all your daily banking needs.

Eli Ajzenman:

But that being said, with open banking and the way technology's gone, um,

Eli Ajzenman:

that's obviously a lot easier these days.

Eli Ajzenman:

You don't have, you don't have to walk into a branch to do

Eli Ajzenman:

it, but you're still tired.

Eli Ajzenman:

For the most part, um, financially to some sort of banking institution,

Eli Ajzenman:

whether you borrow from them or not.

Eli Ajzenman:

So they've always got a, um, a leverage which they can, a lever they can

Eli Ajzenman:

pull, um, to talk to those clients.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, but certainly, um, non-bank lenders have taken a, a large slice

Eli Ajzenman:

of, um, the mortgage industry, mortgage lending industry.

Eli Ajzenman:

That continues to grow because the diversity of the kind of clients that

Eli Ajzenman:

the banks will do as opposed to what non-bank lenders will do, has grown.

Eli Ajzenman:

Although the banks are slightly catching up, but so there's a,

Eli Ajzenman:

there's a market for each, but.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, the banks will never lose their, share, a large share of it because of

Eli Ajzenman:

their intrinsic connection through, um, banking facilities, deposits,

Eli Ajzenman:

transactions that need to be made.

Eli Ajzenman:

There's all those sort of things.

Eli Ajzenman:

So it's, it's a, it's a close system in some ways.

Eli Ajzenman:

Uh, so

Anthony:

yeah, it's, it's, it's a challenge, isn't it, because.

Anthony:

The, I've often heard it said that one of the biggest issues for people is that

Anthony:

the actual, uh, work that is involved in moving from one bank to another.

Anthony:

There's so much and there's so little to be gained that

Anthony:

it's hardly worth the effort.

Anthony:

And that's the biggest lever that they have to pull is the lack of inertia.

Anthony:

Uh, as far as, you know, most people are concerned.

Anthony:

Uh, you know, and look, and I, I, I could say I'm no different.

Anthony:

Look, I was one of those people that I. Uh, you know, when I was a kid in

Anthony:

primary school that the Commonwealth Bank in those days offered the opportunity

Anthony:

for you to open a bank account.

Anthony:

Yep.

Anthony:

And that's what happened as a kid.

Anthony:

You opened a bank account there.

Anthony:

Uh, I think my parents were still banking at the, at the Commonwealth Bank then.

Anthony:

I've pretty much been a Commonwealth Bank, um, you know, account holder.

Anthony:

Then because

Eli Ajzenman:

movement is hard.

Eli Ajzenman:

Interesting enough that those days, the, the bank was not owned by the,

Eli Ajzenman:

by the, it was not private bank.

Eli Ajzenman:

It was, it was owned by the government.

Eli Ajzenman:

The people owned it.

Eli Ajzenman:

Yes.

Eli Ajzenman:

Right.

Eli Ajzenman:

So it was.

Eli Ajzenman:

You felt okay.

Eli Ajzenman:

That's why they, they were able to go into schools and do all that

Eli Ajzenman:

sort of stuff because it wasn't a private institution, which changed

Eli Ajzenman:

obviously, um, many years ago.

Eli Ajzenman:

But, um, like you, many others are still there.

Eli Ajzenman:

They're still banking with the Commonwealth.

Eli Ajzenman:

They, they, they complain.

Eli Ajzenman:

They go, uh, you know, we don't like this, we don't like that.

Eli Ajzenman:

Can't get hold of anybody but moving.

Eli Ajzenman:

Absolutely.

Eli Ajzenman:

There's no inertia to move because, um, what's the difference?

Eli Ajzenman:

It's another bank with the different rules.

Eli Ajzenman:

Same.

Eli Ajzenman:

Same outcome.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, you people move accounts and that when they move their lending,

Eli Ajzenman:

then they'll, they'll, they'll tend to move everything across.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, business lets less so because there's much, there's much more

Eli Ajzenman:

tied up in their transactional, um, arrangements with the banks.

Eli Ajzenman:

So to move that moving a business is even less, um, likely.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so that's why they ch and, but they'll, but for the banks, the business

Eli Ajzenman:

accounts are much more lucrative.

Anthony:

Yeah.

Anthony:

And, and, and I think that's an interesting one because obviously a

Anthony:

lot of the people that are listening into this program are, are business

Anthony:

leaders, and, uh, that whole issue of being able to move banks for a business

Anthony:

or even to have an alternative one.

Anthony:

So, uh, I was, um, talking to, uh, a colleague recently who showed me a system

Anthony:

that he's developed and it it, and it's more just of keeping things in different.

Anthony:

In different pockets.

Eli Ajzenman:

Yeah.

Anthony:

And we talked about the idea of setting it up in two banks,

Anthony:

so it makes it less easy to touch things that you shouldn't touch so

Anthony:

that they can stay in their various buckets, which is a, a great concept.

Anthony:

And looking at where you can actually go to a new bank as a business

Anthony:

holder to set up, um, multi things.

Anthony:

So you have multiple accounts.

Anthony:

Gee, that's hard work.

Anthony:

They don't make that easy.

Eli Ajzenman:

And it's even harder now because of, um, even though digital

Eli Ajzenman:

technology has made everything a lot easier, but now with the, um.

Eli Ajzenman:

The fraud, um, that's going on and all the, and the ability for people

Eli Ajzenman:

to hack into accounts, the compliance regime, the security regime has tripled.

Eli Ajzenman:

So now to open, um, I just recently moved, not bank accounts, but I

Eli Ajzenman:

just moved, um, internet providers, um, and um, website provider.

Eli Ajzenman:

And I had to change all my Microsoft and all that sort of stuff.

Eli Ajzenman:

The amount of work.

Eli Ajzenman:

To get that moved across, double authentication.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, if you had the wrong password, you were locked out.

Eli Ajzenman:

I mean, it's to the point where I think, and why am I doing this?

Eli Ajzenman:

Uh, because it's a nightmare.

Eli Ajzenman:

Banking much the same, to move accounts.

Eli Ajzenman:

Yeah, applying is easy, but providing all the relevant, um, security information

Eli Ajzenman:

that we now need behind it takes time.

Anthony:

I, I, I think what I find, uh, and maybe this is, uh, and I'm

Anthony:

interested in your view, whether I've got a a, a, um, where I'm looking through

Anthony:

a particular lens or not, do banks really and, and do many of the other

Anthony:

institutions where you can do banking, uh, um, care much about small business.

Anthony:

Really,

Eli Ajzenman:

they all say they do.

Eli Ajzenman:

And when they say, oh, you know, we care about your business

Eli Ajzenman:

and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Eli Ajzenman:

Really the care of the business really comes down to the, to the people

Eli Ajzenman:

that you're dealing with in the bank.

Eli Ajzenman:

So the care factor is only as great, only as good as the person you're dealing with.

Eli Ajzenman:

Even though the bank may, uh, have a banner saying, oh,

Eli Ajzenman:

we, we love small business.

Eli Ajzenman:

But if they've got.

Eli Ajzenman:

Poor people in there with poor relationships, that's

Eli Ajzenman:

where it breaks down.

Eli Ajzenman:

So having been a small business banker myself, um, and a lot of those clients

Eli Ajzenman:

who I used to work with came with me when I became a broker because my

Eli Ajzenman:

relationship with them was strong.

Eli Ajzenman:

But then there are other bankers who just see what they do as

Eli Ajzenman:

transitory in their career path.

Eli Ajzenman:

So they do what they have to do, tick boxes, blah, blah, blah.

Eli Ajzenman:

Do they really care about their small business clients?

Eli Ajzenman:

I don't think so.

Eli Ajzenman:

Not only as much as they need to make sure that they, um, um, get repeat

Eli Ajzenman:

business, that they're not, um, that they're not, um, doing anything wrong

Eli Ajzenman:

or, or they don't get, or the other way they don't get any complaints by the,

Eli Ajzenman:

by their small business, um, clients.

Eli Ajzenman:

So do they really care?

Eli Ajzenman:

No.

Anthony:

We hope you're enjoying listening to the Biz Buys Podcast.

Anthony:

Have you ever thought about having your own podcast, one for your

Anthony:

business where your brilliance is exposed to the rest of the world?

Anthony:

Well come talk to us at podcast Done for You.

Anthony:

That's what we're all about.

Anthony:

We even offer a service where I'll anchor the program for you.

Anthony:

So all you have to do is show up for a conversation, but don't worry about that.

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We will do everything to design a program that suits you.

Anthony:

From the strategy right through to publishing and of

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course helping you share it.

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So come talk to us podcast done for you.com au Details

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in the show notes below.

Anthony:

Now back to Biz Bites.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, get repeat business that they're not, um, that they're

Eli Ajzenman:

not, um, doing anything wrong or, or they don't get, or the other way they

Eli Ajzenman:

don't get any complaints by the, by their small business, um, clients.

Eli Ajzenman:

So do they really care?

Eli Ajzenman:

No.

Eli Ajzenman:

The, the caring implies, um, a sort of love, but there's no love there.

Eli Ajzenman:

It's, you know, do we make money on you?

Eli Ajzenman:

Yeah.

Eli Ajzenman:

Great.

Eli Ajzenman:

It'll stay if we do, we make not make money on you.

Eli Ajzenman:

Well, so move.

Eli Ajzenman:

We don't care.

Anthony:

I, I mean, and is there a difference between, we talk about the,

Anthony:

you know, in Australia we certainly talk about the big four banks, but, um,

Anthony:

if you go beyond that to some of the smaller banks, and even if you go to the

Anthony:

other, uh, alternative, um, you know, uh.

Anthony:

Organizations.

Anthony:

Do you, uh, is there a better deal there for business?

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, I think there's, again, it depends.

Eli Ajzenman:

Small business has been such a variety of, of cases.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, I think we're, I. Bigger banks, uh, uh, for small business

Eli Ajzenman:

are good because they have, they have the facilities, they have the

Eli Ajzenman:

technology to assist small businesses much better than smaller players.

Eli Ajzenman:

Smaller players tend to be limited with their technology.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, can't do a, a wide variety of transactions,

Eli Ajzenman:

particularly if it's overseas.

Eli Ajzenman:

It's all case by case basis.

Eli Ajzenman:

If you're just running a, um, if your, if your business is like just an owner,

Eli Ajzenman:

um, owner operator, and it's very simple.

Eli Ajzenman:

I. It's just transactional.

Eli Ajzenman:

You're not, you're not needing much else from the bank.

Eli Ajzenman:

Well, you can really go anywhere.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, and now with digital, you can just do whatever you need to do.

Eli Ajzenman:

But if your business relies on overdraft facilities, business loans overseas,

Eli Ajzenman:

um, facilities, if you're an importer or an export, if you're dealing with

Eli Ajzenman:

overseas money, transactions, all that sort of bigger, uh, infrastructure

Eli Ajzenman:

stuff, then the, the big four unfortunately have still got that, um.

Eli Ajzenman:

I still own that space because it's a legacy and that's built

Eli Ajzenman:

into the world, world of finance.

Eli Ajzenman:

So for a small player to come along and try and get in

Eli Ajzenman:

there, not gonna happen, right?

Eli Ajzenman:

So everyone, the smaller guys tries sort of.

Eli Ajzenman:

Niche, their markets.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, I would, they're also there for clients that don't fit the mold in terms

Eli Ajzenman:

of lending, let's say, um, they're outside of the scope of what the bank will offer

Eli Ajzenman:

them, then yes, they'll go to a smaller lender for business loans, um, what they

Eli Ajzenman:

call non-conforming, or they might have built policies around serviceability.

Eli Ajzenman:

So yeah, they'll move there.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, but they won't move their accounts.

Eli Ajzenman:

I'll leave their accounts with the big, with the, with the major and

Eli Ajzenman:

just take the lending from the small, from the small, smaller player.

Eli Ajzenman:

That answer your question?

Eli Ajzenman:

Not sure.

Anthony:

Mm. Well, it's, no, because it is an interesting thing that, uh,

Anthony:

having, having been down this path a little bit and tried to invest,

Anthony:

investigate it and, and what I found as well as, um, you know, we talked about

Anthony:

Macquarie earlier on, and they have some specific targets that they have, and I

Anthony:

think that's an interesting thing about Macquarie perhaps versus some of the

Anthony:

other banks where they are very specific about who they want as their client.

Anthony:

Mm-hmm.

Anthony:

And, um, they're not afraid to say no.

Anthony:

Yeah.

Anthony:

Which is a lesson that really we should all learn in business.

Anthony:

Right.

Anthony:

That, that, um, that's not necessarily a bad thing, knowing exactly who your

Anthony:

client is and knowing who you say yes to, but importantly who you say no to.

Eli Ajzenman:

Oh, absolutely.

Eli Ajzenman:

And Mac, um, Macquarie is probably unique in that out of

Eli Ajzenman:

the, out of the bigger banks.

Eli Ajzenman:

They're very specific about the kind of clients they want to, they wanna bank,

Eli Ajzenman:

and if you don't meet, and you might have a great business, but if you don't

Eli Ajzenman:

meet that, um, that criteria, they'll just, they'll politely say, look, thanks.

Eli Ajzenman:

But, um, we, we'll pass on this one.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, and it could be for various reasons, but, um.

Eli Ajzenman:

They know their lane, they wanna stick to that lane.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, I think it gives them better, um, risk analysis on their client base.

Eli Ajzenman:

'cause they're not, haven't got a wide, it's not as, not as wide as the,

Eli Ajzenman:

the, the bigger, the bigger banks.

Eli Ajzenman:

Then again, the bigger banks don't have, don't really have that

Eli Ajzenman:

luxury in some way because they're seen as being, you know, um.

Eli Ajzenman:

Part of the community, uh, finance structure.

Eli Ajzenman:

So, you know, you can't just pick and choose, guys, come on, I've

Eli Ajzenman:

got, you know, as long as I service or I've got the facilities that

Eli Ajzenman:

you need, you need to take me.

Eli Ajzenman:

Whereas Macquarie probably 'cause it's a bit, um, uh, it's not

Eli Ajzenman:

seen as, as part of the big four.

Eli Ajzenman:

Well, yeah, they can, they can, they can make their, um, their choices

Eli Ajzenman:

a little bit more, um, obvious.

Anthony:

I mean, what does that mean for you, uh, in your

Anthony:

side of things as, as a broker?

Anthony:

Uh, does it mean that someone like you should also choose a very specific type

Anthony:

of client, or does it mean that you've just also got, you can take any client,

Anthony:

but you've gotta know which, which way to go depending on who the client is.

Eli Ajzenman:

So as a broker, and I made for myself specifically, I made

Eli Ajzenman:

the, the, the conscious choice to, um, stick with a certain kind of client

Eli Ajzenman:

similar to what I was already dealing with at the bank when I was there.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so honestly, I don't deal with first home buyers and

Eli Ajzenman:

I'll tell a first home buyer.

Eli Ajzenman:

I, I mean, I'll, if they're one of my client's kids, yeah, I'll,

Eli Ajzenman:

I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll look after them, but I don't, um, specifically

Eli Ajzenman:

chase that kind of business.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um.

Eli Ajzenman:

There are people that are brokers who do it much better than I do.

Eli Ajzenman:

And I'll tell clients, say, look, I'm not your broker.

Eli Ajzenman:

And sometimes my approach to to, um, to lending and things like that

Eli Ajzenman:

doesn't fit in with the client's view of how they want things done.

Eli Ajzenman:

So I'm quite happy to say, look, I've got another broker.

Eli Ajzenman:

Maybe he might be, or she might be better for what you need,

Eli Ajzenman:

but this is the way I work.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so yeah, I do.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, curate my clients, so to speak.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, 'cause that way I know who they are, they know who I am.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, and I think other brokers do the same in different areas.

Eli Ajzenman:

There are some brokers who specialize in first home buyers, um, other,

Eli Ajzenman:

you know, maybe distressed clients.

Eli Ajzenman:

I think if you do that, it gives you a better focus on, um, what

Eli Ajzenman:

your business is like, who.

Eli Ajzenman:

You can deal with in terms of, um, banking or lending, you know, the

Eli Ajzenman:

players you have to go to to facilitate good outcomes for your clients.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so it's a, it's, I think it's a, it's a definitely a focus, um, that I think

Eli Ajzenman:

a lot of brokers miss out, especially new ones coming on board because they

Eli Ajzenman:

wanna do everything, everything goes past their desk, they wanna do it all.

Eli Ajzenman:

And, um.

Eli Ajzenman:

Being a mentor to a couple of, to a number of brokers, I tell 'em no.

Eli Ajzenman:

I said, do, do that because you need the experience, but start

Eli Ajzenman:

to develop a lane for yourself.

Eli Ajzenman:

It helps you with your marketing, helps you with your understanding of your

Eli Ajzenman:

clients if you try and keep within a specific, um, lane of type of clients

Eli Ajzenman:

that you wanna deal with, and then that, that reputation comes back to you.

Eli Ajzenman:

'cause they, oh, you go and see Fred because he's really good on asset finance.

Eli Ajzenman:

You don't go to anybody else.

Eli Ajzenman:

So to build your own brand as well, I think.

Anthony:

Yeah.

Anthony:

And I, I agree.

Anthony:

I mean, I think it's a, it's a principle in business that, uh, is often taught,

Anthony:

but very little, very often ignored.

Anthony:

Uh, that whole idea of niching is such an important thing.

Anthony:

And I, and I imagine particularly in a space like yours, I mean, we've just

Anthony:

touched on it, that they've got, you know, we've got the major banks, but there's

Anthony:

so many other, uh, lending options.

Anthony:

Mm-hmm.

Anthony:

Out there.

Anthony:

And that's just on the lending side.

Anthony:

That alone, the banking side, and, and then keeping it on top of who's doing

Anthony:

what and got what facilities available, including the electronic options

Anthony:

and things like actually staying on top of what is in a particular area.

Anthony:

That's, you know, a massive task within itself, isn't it?

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, my inbox floods over every morning with all

Eli Ajzenman:

the new players, new policies.

Eli Ajzenman:

Keeping up with it is, um, I. Becoming a bit of a nightmare.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so you'll ne you, you'll never know everything about everything even in your

Eli Ajzenman:

own space, no matter how niche you are.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, you'll never know everything.

Eli Ajzenman:

And so having good relationships with particular bank, um, institutions,

Eli Ajzenman:

BDMs, and that is always helpful.

Eli Ajzenman:

And I still do it now.

Eli Ajzenman:

Even, even though I've been doing this for a long time, I think,

Eli Ajzenman:

oh, I'm not sure about that one.

Eli Ajzenman:

Or I'll key, I'll, I'll email my BDM.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, and sometimes they don't even know, uh, which is, which is, um, a problem.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so yeah, look, it's, there's such a, 'cause information is so easy to, to, to.

Eli Ajzenman:

Transport.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, it just, it hits you every day like a wave.

Eli Ajzenman:

So you've gotta, you've gotta wade through that.

Eli Ajzenman:

And again, if you, if you're niched, you can get rid of two thirds of it.

Eli Ajzenman:

'cause it doesn't, doesn't relate to you, right?

Eli Ajzenman:

So you're only concentrating the stuff that, that, that matters.

Eli Ajzenman:

And that, that's much easier to, to remember.

Eli Ajzenman:

But you've then gotta have a system really where you start to put those

Eli Ajzenman:

changes somewhere that you, so you can remember where they are.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um.

Eli Ajzenman:

But it's not fa, it's not far safe either.

Eli Ajzenman:

But this information overload is a massive, um, issue I think

Eli Ajzenman:

for, for brokers, especially if you're new and you know, nothing.

Eli Ajzenman:

Uh, gee, it's n it's a nightmare.

Anthony:

Yeah.

Anthony:

I mean, because I, I think the volume of options is huge, isn't it, these days.

Anthony:

I mean, that's the, that's the truth of it.

Anthony:

If, you know, if I come to you and say, okay, I'd like to borrow X amount

Anthony:

of money, um, I. What are my options?

Anthony:

Like the list is a mile long really, isn't it?

Eli Ajzenman:

So you, you can, you can short circuit that, that list

Eli Ajzenman:

because, so yeah, you've come to me and said, okay, I need X. So my,

Eli Ajzenman:

my first response would be, why?

Eli Ajzenman:

Y do you need X?

Eli Ajzenman:

What are you going, what are you?

Eli Ajzenman:

It's a bit like a financial planner.

Eli Ajzenman:

You've gotta get beyond the initial need to understand what

Eli Ajzenman:

the purpose is, what the future looks like for what you wanna do.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, and that will actually quite narrow then sometimes the people that you need

Eli Ajzenman:

to go to, because if you, you need to be able to plan, not just for what you

Eli Ajzenman:

need today, but to make sure that it's flexible enough for what you wanna do.

Eli Ajzenman:

That it meet your goals down the track.

Eli Ajzenman:

So my conversations and, um, teach that to my, to my mentees as well,

Eli Ajzenman:

have, have a full conversation.

Eli Ajzenman:

Not about the rate, not about how much they wanna borrow, but understand

Eli Ajzenman:

why your client is doing what they're doing, what's the driver.

Eli Ajzenman:

Uh, 'cause quite often the drivers might be.

Eli Ajzenman:

Might, you know, might be, might be, might be a great driver and say, do you really

Eli Ajzenman:

want, need to do this at, at this point?

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so you need to question and push back on your clients sometimes as well.

Eli Ajzenman:

So to make sure, to make sure they're thinking in the right uh, way.

Eli Ajzenman:

'cause sometimes it's an emotional decision.

Eli Ajzenman:

Oh, that's it, we're selling up, we're doing, or I'm buying, or whatever.

Eli Ajzenman:

And it's an emotional decision.

Eli Ajzenman:

It's not always the wisest decision.

Eli Ajzenman:

So I think brokers, um, worth their salt, need to make that discovery.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, piece prime in their initial discussions because whatever comes outta

Eli Ajzenman:

that, it will be the, the loan, the amount, the product, the rate that, that's

Eli Ajzenman:

all a consequence of your discussion.

Eli Ajzenman:

But there are many brokers that say, yep, no problems.

Eli Ajzenman:

I'll find you a deal.

Eli Ajzenman:

Boom.

Eli Ajzenman:

That's it.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, that doesn't take into account really what, um, might be a more

Eli Ajzenman:

important principle for why the client's doing what they're doing.

Eli Ajzenman:

So, yeah.

Anthony:

Intrigued about your profession because there's a lot that I think

Anthony:

other business people can learn from it because it is super, super

Anthony:

competitive and I think it's super competitive on, on three different

Anthony:

levels because there is the, uh, option of, okay, there are multiple brokers.

Anthony:

How do you choose one?

Anthony:

Then there's also the option of, ah.

Anthony:

Look, the big banks particularly do plenty of advertising.

Anthony:

So why don't I go directly to them?

Anthony:

And then there's the third option, which is, look, I'll just sc the

Anthony:

internet and find someone new myself.

Anthony:

So in that kind of environment, how do you actually stand out in the first place?

Eli Ajzenman:

Oh, that's a, that's a good, that's a good question, Anthony.

Eli Ajzenman:

Thank you.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, standing out.

Eli Ajzenman:

So again, it comes down, I think to, um, if, first of all, if you

Eli Ajzenman:

differentiate yourself by, um, as we said before, niche that already

Eli Ajzenman:

sets you apart from all the other brokers that you need to compete with.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um.

Eli Ajzenman:

You need to build a reputation about, with, with clients, about what you

Eli Ajzenman:

do and how you do it and, and, and the outcomes you you provide, and

Eli Ajzenman:

that builds your brand again, to differentiate you from somebody else.

Eli Ajzenman:

Your biggest referral source is always going to be.

Eli Ajzenman:

People you've dealt with, the people they know.

Eli Ajzenman:

Because generally, I think maybe first home buyers, because they're out,

Eli Ajzenman:

they're technologically savvy, they'll go on the internet and go and they'll

Eli Ajzenman:

look at Google reviews, who's got four out of five or five out of five?

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, I. Especially if their friends haven't done any lending, but if their

Eli Ajzenman:

friends have all done some sort of lending before the first, per, the

Eli Ajzenman:

first people they're gonna ask is them, because they're people of trust.

Eli Ajzenman:

So if they trust their friends, they'll certainly try their, their

Eli Ajzenman:

friend's recommendation first.

Eli Ajzenman:

They may follow it up with a Google search to see if, if the people that

Eli Ajzenman:

have been recommended are adequate or if they've got other favorable

Eli Ajzenman:

reviews, um, which is no different than it was 20 years ago before Google.

Eli Ajzenman:

You go to mom and dad and say, who's, who's the guy at the

Eli Ajzenman:

bank that I have to talk to?

Eli Ajzenman:

Or when the brokers came through, you'd ask someone who'd used a broker?

Eli Ajzenman:

Well, I haven't used one before.

Eli Ajzenman:

'cause they're only new.

Eli Ajzenman:

Who do I go to?

Eli Ajzenman:

And so that is probably, I would say 85% of a broker's, um, business has to

Eli Ajzenman:

come from that because you've already got a trust level that, um, starts when

Eli Ajzenman:

someone's already knows who you are or something about you or being recommended.

Eli Ajzenman:

By somebody else to you.

Eli Ajzenman:

The rest is all marketing, which is, you know, funnel stuff.

Eli Ajzenman:

You know, put market, advertise, promise the world, you know, I've got

Eli Ajzenman:

the cheapest rates, I've got this, I've got that, and you will get a certain,

Eli Ajzenman:

um, volume of people through that.

Eli Ajzenman:

The quality, I, I would, I would question the quality of the,

Eli Ajzenman:

of those kind of referrals that come through, but experience.

Eli Ajzenman:

Will dictate and you will learn where to get your referral network.

Eli Ajzenman:

It's not to say you don't go and advertise or network.

Eli Ajzenman:

I think networking is important and you need to decide what kind

Eli Ajzenman:

of networking you're doing as well.

Eli Ajzenman:

That's more for referral partners rather than direct to, to clients.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so, you know, I, I think ref building, building a business in this industry is

Eli Ajzenman:

hard because you have to have, you have to have the track record to get the, um.

Eli Ajzenman:

Brand up and running, and you can't get a track record until someone

Eli Ajzenman:

actually refers you a, a loan.

Eli Ajzenman:

So you've gotta start at probably at the bottom end and try and get, as you know

Eli Ajzenman:

and do, and try and get as many, uh, client deals across the table and slowly

Eli Ajzenman:

shuffle through the till you finally start building a, a rapport with those clients.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, because otherwise why are you different to the guy down the road?

Eli Ajzenman:

No.

Eli Ajzenman:

So, um.

Eli Ajzenman:

It's really just a case.

Eli Ajzenman:

Talk to the people you know, your family, your friends.

Eli Ajzenman:

Everybody know, even network meetings when I go there, um, they always

Eli Ajzenman:

ask, so who's your target market?

Eli Ajzenman:

You know, who, who do you want us to refer you to?

Eli Ajzenman:

And I go, okay, before we start, there's 20 people in the room.

Eli Ajzenman:

Put their hands up.

Eli Ajzenman:

You've got a mortgage.

Eli Ajzenman:

So 20, quite often.

Eli Ajzenman:

20 outta 20 will put their hands on 'em and go, I don't need to go any further.

Eli Ajzenman:

I've got 20 people right here, and you all know me, so sure, refer me your business.

Eli Ajzenman:

But how about.

Eli Ajzenman:

Referring me your own business first, get to know what I do so that if

Eli Ajzenman:

you do wanna refer me to somebody else, you actually know how I work.

Eli Ajzenman:

Otherwise, I'm just a stranger to you that does loans.

Eli Ajzenman:

So I, I, I push, I push hard saying, let me do the business for you first

Eli Ajzenman:

before you start referring me business.

Eli Ajzenman:

But then you're confident.

Eli Ajzenman:

So using the opportunity to, to plug your trade, especially if you're

Eli Ajzenman:

going out to and meeting people.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um.

Eli Ajzenman:

Don't ask for a referral business.

Eli Ajzenman:

So the the guy in front of you is the first deal you need to do.

Eli Ajzenman:

Or at least try and do.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, and that will measure, that'll give you a measure of success

Eli Ajzenman:

to start building beyond that.

Anthony:

If you, if you've, um, if you've had a loan for at least a year,

Anthony:

that being able to move to somewhere else, if that's, you know, the process.

Anthony:

If you go, if.

Anthony:

If you conduct a review and say, um, listen, you can get a

Anthony:

better deal by going over here.

Anthony:

Uh, that's possible, isn't it?

Anthony:

It's not that, it's not that you're locked in for the length of the loan unless

Eli Ajzenman:

you've got a fixed rate, um, facility, which Australia's an outlier in

Eli Ajzenman:

that because most other countries, when you get a loan, they're all fixed rates.

Eli Ajzenman:

So if you take a loan in America, it's a fixed rate for 30 years.

Eli Ajzenman:

Right.

Eli Ajzenman:

They're not, they're not variable.

Eli Ajzenman:

So Australia's a bit of an outlier in some of that, where we do most

Eli Ajzenman:

of our lending's all variable.

Eli Ajzenman:

So yes, you can move and, uh, it's, it's, it's easier saying I'm

Eli Ajzenman:

moving, um, and move your loan.

Eli Ajzenman:

But then I, I ask the, I always ask the question, why are we moving?

Eli Ajzenman:

Oh, better rate.

Eli Ajzenman:

I'm going, how much is it gonna save you?

Eli Ajzenman:

Is it worth one?

Eli Ajzenman:

Is it worth your time and effort?

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, and two, is there a real saving in, in, in doing that?

Eli Ajzenman:

Just for, you know, a small, and so I get a lot, I mean, we all get, as

Eli Ajzenman:

brokers saying, get me a better deal.

Eli Ajzenman:

Well, what does that, what does that actually look like?

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, are you having issues with your bank?

Eli Ajzenman:

Are you paying too much?

Eli Ajzenman:

I have.

Eli Ajzenman:

Look at your rate.

Eli Ajzenman:

Okay.

Eli Ajzenman:

It may be a small, you know, maybe five, 10 basis points off where

Eli Ajzenman:

the, the, the cheapest bank is.

Eli Ajzenman:

But how long have you been with these guys?

Eli Ajzenman:

That's, you know, that's important as well.

Eli Ajzenman:

People don't realize that history does is important.

Eli Ajzenman:

With banking institutions 'cause they see, they see a consistency

Eli Ajzenman:

in what you've been doing.

Eli Ajzenman:

And quite often, sometimes that's a contradiction sometimes and quite often.

Eli Ajzenman:

But what I'm trying to say is that don't disregard your length of time with,

Eli Ajzenman:

with a particular institution that.

Eli Ajzenman:

In case there's a decision to be made and it's line ball, um, a good

Eli Ajzenman:

reputation with the bank you've been dealing with can sometimes

Eli Ajzenman:

sway the bank to say, you know what?

Eli Ajzenman:

We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna give

Eli Ajzenman:

you the, the, the funding.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, even though it doesn't quite meet our criteria, because we've seen what you've

Eli Ajzenman:

been doing for the last 10 years with us.

Eli Ajzenman:

Right.

Eli Ajzenman:

And that's not always gonna be a, a deal winner, but it's, it certainly puts

Eli Ajzenman:

weight on your side of the, of the ledger.

Eli Ajzenman:

Uh, whereas you're going to a new bank, it's all lovey Doy.

Eli Ajzenman:

Oh, we love to bring it across.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, uh, but we don't like what you've done over here.

Eli Ajzenman:

Sorry.

Eli Ajzenman:

We can't take you.

Anthony:

Yeah.

Anthony:

And, and.

Anthony:

I, I think on the back of all of that, I mean, what you are, what you are

Anthony:

saying there, even from someone new's coming to you and looking to, looking

Anthony:

to change, is that there's a de a large degree of service that needs

Anthony:

to be offered by mortgage brokers.

Anthony:

But what fascinates me and is that from what I've observed, is that it's an

Anthony:

industry where there's a lot of service When someone first walks in the door.

Anthony:

Then it's just thanks for coming.

Anthony:

We'll just hope that you sit there for the next 5, 10, 20 years and, um, you

Anthony:

know, you will possibly call me if, uh, you decide you wanna change, you

Anthony:

wanna move house or something like that.

Anthony:

But otherwise we'll just take the little cut that we get

Anthony:

and move on to the new client.

Anthony:

Yeah.

Eli Ajzenman:

So if, so there are two kinds of brokers in that, in that

Eli Ajzenman:

space, there's the ones that you've just described that, um, all lovey-dovey

Eli Ajzenman:

in the first six to 12 months.

Eli Ajzenman:

And then the service level falls away because what?

Eli Ajzenman:

What do I need to call the client for?

Eli Ajzenman:

Really?

Eli Ajzenman:

I. Their loan, their loan's done and dusted.

Eli Ajzenman:

Right?

Eli Ajzenman:

Then there's the other, other half of brokering where is, yes, that's true,

Eli Ajzenman:

but you need to stay in touch with your clients and technology makes it

Eli Ajzenman:

so much easier now to be able to, um, put out feelers to your client base

Eli Ajzenman:

to see how they're tra traveling.

Eli Ajzenman:

Now we don't, we don't actually lot, a lot of banks don't give us line

Eli Ajzenman:

of sight of, of what their, uh, what their rates or appliance rates are.

Eli Ajzenman:

Some do.

Eli Ajzenman:

And you know, there's called, there's called interest creep where banks

Eli Ajzenman:

won't always give them the full discount and they'll all of a sudden,

Eli Ajzenman:

five years later, the margin between what they've started with and what,

Eli Ajzenman:

what's available now is massive.

Eli Ajzenman:

But sometimes you don't get to see that.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so that's, I again, important.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, even doing a once a year annual review, send me your.

Eli Ajzenman:

Statement because I want have a look to make sure that one, that you are in a

Eli Ajzenman:

competitive, you've got a competitive rate, um, and two gives you an opportunity

Eli Ajzenman:

to talk to you about what are your plans for tomorrow or next week, next year.

Eli Ajzenman:

They changed since we spoke.

Eli Ajzenman:

It's a bit of engagement.

Eli Ajzenman:

Now the clients must say, look, no, it's all good.

Eli Ajzenman:

Thanks very much.

Eli Ajzenman:

Tick box.

Eli Ajzenman:

Go away.

Eli Ajzenman:

Doesn't matter.

Eli Ajzenman:

The first thing they're gonna do is if they need something, they're

Eli Ajzenman:

gonna, they're gonna call you.

Eli Ajzenman:

Not the last broker they just spoke to 10 minutes ago who's asked those same

Eli Ajzenman:

questions and you think, well, hang on.

Eli Ajzenman:

Eli hasn't called me in freaking three years, not even an email.

Eli Ajzenman:

So, you know what, I'm, I've got no reason to stay with him.

Eli Ajzenman:

Brokers, he is offering me good, you know, good service and change.

Eli Ajzenman:

Thanks very much.

Eli Ajzenman:

I'm, I'm outta here.

Eli Ajzenman:

And the broker only gets to know when he gets to know, they're saying

Eli Ajzenman:

your loan has been discharged.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so for brokers is important because they're.

Eli Ajzenman:

I don't know know if you know, but we've got two parts of our business.

Eli Ajzenman:

One is the upfront commissions, which we make, but more importantly is there's

Eli Ajzenman:

what's called trailing commissions.

Eli Ajzenman:

So I'm not sure if you're aware of what that is.

Eli Ajzenman:

So we get a very small percentage of what the outstanding balance

Eli Ajzenman:

is paid to us every month.

Eli Ajzenman:

Now, the reason we get paid that is 'cause we're meant to be servicing our clients.

Eli Ajzenman:

So we're still getting paid for doing that, but most brokers

Eli Ajzenman:

or a lot of brokers don't.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, that builds.

Eli Ajzenman:

That's your superannuation, that's your legacy.

Eli Ajzenman:

If you start getting, um, leakage at the bottom, which means

Eli Ajzenman:

you've gotta keep replacing it, you're not gonna grow your book.

Eli Ajzenman:

All you're gonna do is keep the book sort of just about where it is, right?

Eli Ajzenman:

So the idea is to one, grow that, that, that trailing book, because

Eli Ajzenman:

that's really where the value of your business is in dollar terms.

Eli Ajzenman:

You can get up in the morning and know you're making X amount for the

Eli Ajzenman:

year because it's just gonna come in.

Eli Ajzenman:

But retaining that.

Eli Ajzenman:

Is doubly important, um, just as important as doing a new loan.

Eli Ajzenman:

'cause for every loan that goes out the door, you've gotta rewrite another one.

Eli Ajzenman:

So easier to keep the one you've got than try and chase a new one.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so it's, yeah, it's important that brokers do.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um.

Eli Ajzenman:

Keep and stay.

Eli Ajzenman:

Again, it depends on their book as well.

Eli Ajzenman:

If you've got a large commercial book for versus a residential book, um, it would,

Eli Ajzenman:

might be slightly different, um, approach.

Eli Ajzenman:

But certainly as again, with technology today, there is no excuse,

Eli Ajzenman:

no reason why you would not be outreaching to your clients at least

Eli Ajzenman:

once every six, uh, every 90 days.

Eli Ajzenman:

Just a quick email, you know, and trigger points like birthdays,

Eli Ajzenman:

anniversaries, if you've done your job, you've got all that information.

Eli Ajzenman:

It might seem a bit, oh yeah, this is just autogenerated when it comes

Eli Ajzenman:

through them, but it doesn't matter.

Eli Ajzenman:

It's a touch point, you know, people know it's just auto

Eli Ajzenman:

generated by the system still.

Eli Ajzenman:

It's a, it's a touch point.

Eli Ajzenman:

Might trigger something.

Eli Ajzenman:

Oh, got in touch with Eli because, um, A, B, and C. So, yeah,

Anthony:

it's, it, 'cause it's fascinates me that, you know, as, as someone in the

Anthony:

early days of me starting a business, I did a lot of the networking and between

Anthony:

that and other things, uh, I seem to automatically get on the list of a whole

Anthony:

lot of mortgage brokers over the years.

Anthony:

And, uh, consistently what happens is, you know, with the interest rates, uh,

Anthony:

announcement comes out every month, you get, you know, swamped with.

Anthony:

The standard newsletters telling me what, uh, what I could

Anthony:

read about in the news anyway.

Anthony:

Yeah.

Anthony:

Uh, so, and it's just seems to be a very, uh.

Anthony:

Consistent, uh, you know, line that people tread.

Anthony:

And so that's why I'm fascinated by the idea of, of standing out in your,

Anthony:

in your profession, because I think there's a lot for other people to

Anthony:

learn, is saying that you're a very service on, on the, at the front end.

Anthony:

You're a very service dominated one.

Anthony:

Mm-hmm.

Anthony:

There is a degree of automation, as you say, that can happen there, but offering

Anthony:

real service in between is ultimately what's gonna make you grow even better.

Anthony:

And that's.

Anthony:

That's something that a lot of businesses forget about.

Anthony:

Not, not, not just only mortgage

Eli Ajzenman:

brokers.

Eli Ajzenman:

Mm, no, absolutely.

Eli Ajzenman:

So you, you've gotta just, just rehashing what they're, what clients

Eli Ajzenman:

can already read in the news.

Eli Ajzenman:

The rates have gone up, the economy's crap, the inflation's up.

Eli Ajzenman:

You've gotta put all that together and say.

Eli Ajzenman:

Because I understand you.

Eli Ajzenman:

'cause if you've done the right thing in the beginning, you've got

Eli Ajzenman:

good notes on what they're, what the client does, whether they're in

Eli Ajzenman:

business, whether they're, they're self-employed and maybe, or sorry,

Eli Ajzenman:

working PAYG in a particular industry.

Eli Ajzenman:

If you've got those notes, um, and things change your approach to what

Eli Ajzenman:

you speak to them about, whether it's by email, phone call, text, or

Eli Ajzenman:

whatever will be more pertinent, if you can then relate that to their own.

Eli Ajzenman:

Situation.

Eli Ajzenman:

So if you're dealing with a small business client.

Eli Ajzenman:

And rates have, you know, changed and they can read all that and inflation's gone up.

Eli Ajzenman:

Right?

Eli Ajzenman:

So it, the reach out is about, look, this has changed.

Eli Ajzenman:

You and I both know that.

Eli Ajzenman:

Has that affected your business?

Eli Ajzenman:

Do you need some support in what you currently got?

Eli Ajzenman:

Or maybe you've, what you're currently looking at, so you are offering more

Eli Ajzenman:

than just, I'll get you a better rate.

Eli Ajzenman:

You actually are actually, I'm just trying to get some interest in there.

Eli Ajzenman:

Their life and what's going on.

Eli Ajzenman:

I mean, they might be a, a c you know, they might be, um, a lawyer on, on high

Eli Ajzenman:

on, on high income, but they might, the lawyer's got four investment properties.

Eli Ajzenman:

Well, he knows that, that the, the land tax has gone through the roof.

Eli Ajzenman:

You reach out and say, look, you and I both know land tax

Eli Ajzenman:

has gone through the roof.

Eli Ajzenman:

What have you done or what are you thinking of doing to

Eli Ajzenman:

maybe mitigate some of that?

Eli Ajzenman:

Have you spoken to a financial planner about maybe having a look

Eli Ajzenman:

at your structure and seeing.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, what can be done about, so it's not all by always about offering something

Eli Ajzenman:

that you can do for them, but, and that's why networking is important to have the

Eli Ajzenman:

right net professionals in your network.

Eli Ajzenman:

Not so much for them to refer you business, but for you to

Eli Ajzenman:

be able to leverage off their expertise for your clients.

Eli Ajzenman:

So when you reach out to them, that's the service part.

Eli Ajzenman:

I'm not worried about your loan.

Eli Ajzenman:

What I'm worried about is are you structured right?

Eli Ajzenman:

Have you got the right plans in place?

Eli Ajzenman:

Have you spoken to a financial planner?

Eli Ajzenman:

If you haven't, I've got two or three that I trust really well.

Eli Ajzenman:

Might be worthwhile talking to you 'cause you've got four properties

Eli Ajzenman:

and you've had them for a while and you haven't done anything with them.

Eli Ajzenman:

I'm just concerned that might, that you haven't, um, prepared yourself

Eli Ajzenman:

for what's coming down the track.

Eli Ajzenman:

Do you wanna talk to somebody or have you, oh, are you already talking to somebody?

Eli Ajzenman:

And that's great.

Eli Ajzenman:

Terrific.

Eli Ajzenman:

Move on.

Eli Ajzenman:

So, using your networking partners, and I call 'em partners because, um,

Eli Ajzenman:

I put 'em on my, I I will put them on my website as partners with me.

Eli Ajzenman:

Not because I want to, um, get business from them, but I wanna offer

Eli Ajzenman:

their services to my clients to help them improve their circumstances.

Eli Ajzenman:

That doesn't always translate into a business for me.

Eli Ajzenman:

It doesn't matter.

Eli Ajzenman:

What it translates is into respecting who I am.

Eli Ajzenman:

And they think, you know what?

Eli Ajzenman:

The next person they speak to about maybe doing some boring,

Eli Ajzenman:

now you gotta go and see Ali.

Eli Ajzenman:

You just gotta go and see him.

Eli Ajzenman:

Why?

Eli Ajzenman:

Because you just gotta have to see him.

Eli Ajzenman:

Right?

Eli Ajzenman:

So that's the mindset you put, you, you're trying to build, um, that there's

Eli Ajzenman:

a high level of trust in your relationship beyond the initial transaction.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um,

Anthony:

it's.

Anthony:

It's such an important thing, building that trust and, uh, and,

Anthony:

and, and I like what you're saying.

Anthony:

There's a lot for other businesses to learn from, from, you know, your

Anthony:

approach and what makes you stand out.

Anthony:

Uh, I wanted to touch on one other area, uh, just before we wrap things up because

Anthony:

you mentioned it earlier and I a a couple of times and I'm fascinated by it.

Anthony:

Yeah.

Anthony:

So you're obviously mentoring, uh, a number of people.

Anthony:

Uh, tell me how do you actually get into that space in the first place, and

Anthony:

what does that actually, what does that actually look like and, you know, and

Anthony:

ultimately what's the benefit to you?

Eli Ajzenman:

Well, actually we actually, by accident, I actually

Eli Ajzenman:

met another broker, um, at a networking meeting, which unusual,

Eli Ajzenman:

you don't intend to go to networking meetings where there's two of you.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, but in this case there was, um, we got on fairly well and, um, we

Eli Ajzenman:

hooked up on LinkedIn as, as you do.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, and then.

Eli Ajzenman:

She was, she was a mentor with, with a particular firm and that that particular

Eli Ajzenman:

firm was looking for new mentors 'cause their business was growing.

Eli Ajzenman:

So I thought I can do that.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, lemme see what I, I mean I've got, I've got all this stuff in my head.

Eli Ajzenman:

I'd like to get it out, um, give back to the industry because I see what Paul.

Eli Ajzenman:

Brokering does to clients.

Eli Ajzenman:

Like, it's like you get, you, you get to hear them because I dealt

Eli Ajzenman:

with client with broker X and they absolutely screwed up my, my loan, right?

Eli Ajzenman:

So you, you get the, the, the driftwood that comes outta that.

Eli Ajzenman:

So to be able to, um, so I thought, well, here's a way I'm gonna be able to give

Eli Ajzenman:

back to the industry by trying to help.

Eli Ajzenman:

New to industry brokers, um, developed their skills, developed their ethos,

Eli Ajzenman:

their ethics, um, help them with, um, deal scenarios, information.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so yeah, I, I spoke with the, with the woman who was, who

Eli Ajzenman:

owned it, um, in Sydney and, um.

Eli Ajzenman:

After a couple of couple of chats and meetings said, yep, no problem.

Eli Ajzenman:

We've got got plenty of, we've got a few to already start giving you.

Eli Ajzenman:

And so that's what I do.

Eli Ajzenman:

I, I, I, we deal, we, I speak to them sometimes, especially new ones.

Eli Ajzenman:

They'll ring me three, four times a week, sometimes three, four times a day.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, um, how do I do this?

Eli Ajzenman:

How do I, what should I do?

Eli Ajzenman:

The joy out of what you're do doing that is, yeah.

Eli Ajzenman:

Initially it's like, uh, what have I done here?

Eli Ajzenman:

I've just adopted, you know, two, four year olds.

Eli Ajzenman:

Right.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, but what happens is over time is they get more confident, they

Eli Ajzenman:

get more expertise at what they do.

Eli Ajzenman:

And actually, I feel that, that help.

Eli Ajzenman:

I feel good because I think you, you, you're good.

Eli Ajzenman:

You, you know, you've, you've, you've grown and like your own kids.

Eli Ajzenman:

You, when you see your kids grow and they're successful.

Eli Ajzenman:

You take some kudos in that, right?

Eli Ajzenman:

So make, it's always about the giver.

Eli Ajzenman:

The giver gets more than the person who gives, who, who receives.

Eli Ajzenman:

'cause the giver receives that sort of, um, good feeling about what they've done.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, so yeah.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, it's, uh.

Eli Ajzenman:

I realize how much, when I do do that with the, with, with mentees, I actually

Eli Ajzenman:

realize how much I actually know that I don't, that I don't remember knowing.

Eli Ajzenman:

'cause unless you actually use it, you don't remember it.

Eli Ajzenman:

Right.

Eli Ajzenman:

But it just sort of comes flooding out and I, and then at the end

Eli Ajzenman:

of the conversation go, I should have, I'm glad I remembered that.

Eli Ajzenman:

'cause I didn't know actually.

Eli Ajzenman:

You remembered it, knew it.

Eli Ajzenman:

So, so.

Eli Ajzenman:

No, it's a, it's, it's good fun, but also actually you get to weed out the

Eli Ajzenman:

rubbish because sometimes you get.

Eli Ajzenman:

Guys, girls are coming in and you think, why are you being a broker?

Eli Ajzenman:

And so we have our initial, um, first, first, uh, in interview about

Eli Ajzenman:

how the relationship's gonna work.

Eli Ajzenman:

And I give feedback to the owner of the business.

Eli Ajzenman:

I'm going, look, this one's gonna be finished in six weeks.

Eli Ajzenman:

I'm telling you now.

Eli Ajzenman:

How do you know that?

Eli Ajzenman:

I just know.

Eli Ajzenman:

And lo and behold, six weeks later.

Eli Ajzenman:

They're gone.

Eli Ajzenman:

So, but that's just, I think that's a good thing.

Eli Ajzenman:

'cause you don't, you, you need to, it's, it's a weeding out process.

Eli Ajzenman:

So you, you, you want people getting into the industry who know what

Eli Ajzenman:

they're doing, passionate about what they do, um, and, um, will improve

Eli Ajzenman:

the industry, uh, in the whole, which improves our reputation as brokers.

Eli Ajzenman:

Look, I mean, 85% of all lendings done by brokers now, so we can't

Eli Ajzenman:

be doing it that bad a job.

Anthony:

I love it.

Anthony:

Um, and it's so you can hear the joy that you get by being a mentor,

Anthony:

uh, from the way you talk about it.

Anthony:

And I think that that in itself is a good way of describing how, uh, much benefit

Anthony:

there is to you, is there is or clearly to the people who are who you are mentoring.

Anthony:

Uh, just to wrap things up, a question that I like to ask all my guests on

Anthony:

the program is what's the aha moment?

Anthony:

That people have when they come to work with you?

Eli Ajzenman:

The aha moment?

Eli Ajzenman:

Mm. When I haven't, the aha moment sort of comes when, why haven't

Eli Ajzenman:

you asked me how much money I want?

Eli Ajzenman:

I'll go through that process of, you know, you know, so tell,

Eli Ajzenman:

tell, tell me the Anthony story.

Eli Ajzenman:

That's my first question to all clients.

Eli Ajzenman:

Uh, going back to an old, um.

Eli Ajzenman:

Television personality.

Eli Ajzenman:

He used to ask his, his, his, um, invitees on his, on his show.

Eli Ajzenman:

That was always his first question.

Eli Ajzenman:

Tell me the Anthony story and then just sit back and let the floodgates open.

Eli Ajzenman:

And by 20 minutes later, we haven't even talked about anything financial.

Eli Ajzenman:

I've, you know, I've, I've learned about them, their history, much like

Eli Ajzenman:

what we've done a little bit today.

Eli Ajzenman:

Yeah.

Eli Ajzenman:

Um, and by the time we get to the point where, okay, let's talk

Eli Ajzenman:

about what we're gonna be doing.

Eli Ajzenman:

I'm going, oh, okay.

Eli Ajzenman:

It's a trust moment.

Eli Ajzenman:

That's, I think for them it's a, they feel relieved that the person they're talking

Eli Ajzenman:

to actually cares about who they are, what they do, and why they want to do it.

Eli Ajzenman:

But it's not a transaction for them.

Eli Ajzenman:

That's the aha moment.

Eli Ajzenman:

And that can take 20 minutes, depends.

Anthony:

Relationships.

Anthony:

Relationships are everything.

Anthony:

And uh, it starts.

Anthony:

You know, from the moment you first meet people, and I, I, I love the,

Anthony:

the approach that you take to that.

Anthony:

And, uh, uh, and I thank you for being so open about, you know, the different

Anthony:

choices and the different options that are available to people because

Anthony:

I think there's a lot for, for, uh, people to learn, not just about, uh,

Anthony:

specifically about where to go for.

Anthony:

Uh, and what to look at in terms of mortgage brokers, but even

Anthony:

generally about how you approach, uh, being a service related business.

Anthony:

And I think that's what being a thought leader is all about.

Anthony:

And I appreciate you being part of the program,

Eli Ajzenman:

Anthony.

Eli Ajzenman:

Thanks very much for having me on.

Eli Ajzenman:

And it's been a, it's been an eyeopener for me as well.

Anthony:

Well, thank you and, uh, thank you everyone for listening in.

Anthony:

And of course, don't forget to check out the show notes for all the information

Anthony:

on how to get in touch with Eli, as well as, uh, other information about the show.

Anthony:

And we hope that you will of course, hit the uh, button to subscribe.

Anthony:

We look forward to your company next time on this bytes for thought leaders.

Anthony:

Hey, thanks for listening to Biz Bites.

Anthony:

We hope you enjoyed the program.

Anthony:

Don't forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode.

Anthony:

Biz Bites is proudly brought to you by podcast done for you, the service

Anthony:

where we will deliver a podcast for you and expose your brilliance.

Anthony:

To the world.

Anthony:

Contact us today for more information, details in the show notes.

Anthony:

We look forward to your company next time on Biz Bites.

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About the Podcast

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Biz Bites for Thought Leaders
Learn from Thought Leaders in the Business Professional Services space

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About your host

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Anthony Perl

Anthony is an engagement specialist, building a great catalogue of podcasts of his own and helping others get it done for them. Anthony has spent more than 30 years building brands and growing audiences. His experience includes working in the media (2UE, 2GB, Channel Ten, among others) to working in the corporate and not-for-profit sectors, and for the last 13 years as a small business owner with CommTogether. The business covers branding to websites - all things strategic around marketing. Now podcasts have become central to his business, finding a niche in helping people publish their own, making it easy.