Episode 131

When Two Podcasts Collide: Technology Decision Making with the Other Anthony | Biz Bites Crossover Episode

Two Anthonys, Two Biz Bites, One Brilliant Episode!

Ever get your Biz Bites and your Biz Bytes mixed up? You're not alone! In a special, slightly meta crossover episode, our very own Anthony from "Biz Bites for Thought Leaders" finally teams up with the equally Anthony-named Anthony McMahon from "Biz Bytes" (yes, with a 'Y'!).

They'll commiserate over their shared podcast name confusion while diving deep into something far more important: how businesses can stop making tech blunders. This isn't just about the latest shiny software; it's about avoiding the painful trap of implementing systems before understanding your own processes.

Get ready for some lively banter as the Anthonys champion the human element in a digital world and stress the importance of seamlessly integrating new tech. They're serving up practical insights on making tech investments that actually stick, all while keeping things real and ensuring your business stays authentic. Don't miss this meeting of the Anthonys – it's going to be bite-sized and brilliant!

Listen now and subscribe to "Biz Bites for Thought Leaders" for more essential insights!

***

Connect with Anthony on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonyjmcmahon/ 

Check out his website - www.targetstate.co.nz 

 

B1G1

It’s my real pleasure to invite you to join the B1G1: Business for Good Initiative. B1G1 helps businesses like ours create great impacts in powerful new ways and do so much more for the world around us.


Check them out here: https://b1g1.com 


If it sparks your interest, please do let me know and I’d love to share more. And if you do choose to join B1G1, please use my unique code BM17199. When you join through our code, 50 days of access to education are given to children in the world.


Looking forward to hearing how you go!


Regards,

Anthony

Subscribe to the Anthony Perl hosts channel and the Biz Bites playlist for more inspiring interviews and transformative insights.


Connect with me on LinkedIn:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/adperl/ 

https://www.commtogether.com.au/


Learn more: https://www.commtogether.com.au/biz-bites/ 


Interested in having your own podcast? You can even have Anthony as the anchor of your very show.  Check out https://podcastsdoneforyou.com.au or the podcast on this channel ‪@anthonyperl_hosts‬ 




#leadership #professionalleaders #expertstrategy #podcastshow #podcasting



Transcript
Anthony Perl:

When two podcasts collide technology decision making with the

Anthony Perl:

other Anthony Biz Bites crossover episode, like you've never seen

Anthony Perl:

thought leaders, are you making smart technology decisions for your business?

Anthony Perl:

In today's special crossover episode of Biz Bites, I'm joined by Anthony

Anthony Perl:

McMahon, the host of the other Biz by.

Anthony Perl:

His is B-Y-T-E-S, and mine is Biz Bites for Thought Leaders.

Anthony Perl:

And we're gonna explore how businesses can avoid costly technology mistakes.

Anthony Perl:

Discover why implementing systems without examining your processes first leads

Anthony Perl:

to bad outcomes faster, and how to.

Anthony Perl:

Being sold features you don't need and why The human element remains critical

Anthony Perl:

in your increasingly digital world.

Anthony Perl:

Get ready for some practical insights that will help you make technology

Anthony Perl:

investments that truly serve your business goals rather than creating new problems.

Anthony Perl:

Stay tuned for this, a very special episode of Biz Bites.

Anthony Perl:

Four four liters with two Anthonys.

Anthony Perl:

Well, hello everyone and welcome to Biz Bites for Thought Leaders.

Anthony Perl:

Now I'm gonna emphasize the four thought leaders for a really particular point.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, some of you pointed out to me.

Anthony Perl:

And in one or two, actually it took a little bit that there is actually

Anthony Perl:

another Biz Bytes podcast out there and the host is also named Anthony.

Anthony Perl:

So lo and behold, we've met each other and we thought we've

Anthony Perl:

gotta do a podcast together.

Anthony Perl:

So.

Anthony Perl:

Anthony from Biz Bytes.

Anthony Perl:

I'm Anthony from Biz Bites for Thought Leaders.

Anthony Perl:

Meet Anthony from Biz Bytes for, uh, meet Anthony from just straight biz bytes.

Anthony Perl:

So here we go.

Anthony Perl:

Let's have a bit of fun.

Anthony Perl:

Anthony, welcome to my program.

Anthony McMahon:

Thank you very much Anthony.

Anthony McMahon:

And, uh, I was thinking before about how our listeners could tell us

Anthony McMahon:

apart, um, as we are talking, and I guess the difference is I'm a kiwi.

Anthony McMahon:

If you're an Australian, we've got a slightly different accent.

Anthony McMahon:

So, uh, if the pronunciation just sounds a little bit forced, it's probably me.

Anthony McMahon:

And if it's, if it's, if it's a little bit longer on the vowels, it's probably you.

Anthony McMahon:

So, but thank you for being here and it's great to be here.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, it's an absolute pleasure and we're gonna have some fun.

Anthony Perl:

And I think on the back of that, we should say that any, any international

Anthony Perl:

listeners who are going, I can't tell the difference between the

Anthony Perl:

Australian and the Kiwi accent.

Anthony Perl:

Well, now you're in real trouble.

Anthony Perl:

Try and work it out.

Anthony Perl:

Good luck.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, there's a, there's a, I think it's quite funny, isn't it?

Anthony Perl:

Because for us there's a huge difference in the.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, you know, you can, and, and I've got, uh, a lot of friends who are South

Anthony Perl:

African and that's quite different.

Anthony Perl:

But I know the Kiwi accent often gets confused with the South African accent,

Anthony Perl:

yet it sounds completely different to

Anthony McMahon:

me.

Anthony McMahon:

Yeah, I agreed and, and I hear it all the time of, um, particularly at

Anthony McMahon:

the American side, if you're talking to anyone in that market where they

Anthony McMahon:

go, oh, where, where are you from?

Anthony McMahon:

Because I can't pick your accent.

Anthony McMahon:

It's like I can, I can tell an Australian accent a mile away.

Anthony McMahon:

South African's even, that's even more distinct for me as

Anthony McMahon:

well, just like you're saying.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, but, but yeah, a Kiwi accent.

Anthony McMahon:

We don't have one as far as I'm concerned.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, I don't have one either.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

So good luck everyone.

Anthony Perl:

Um, well firstly, let's just start off and say we've established the

Anthony Perl:

fact that we both have, interestingly enough, have have podcasts called,

Anthony Perl:

uh, biz Bytes at its at its base, uh, but, uh, quite different audience.

Anthony Perl:

And I should say your, your podcast is spelt with a Y in the Bites.

Anthony Perl:

Mine is with an I just to be different.

Anthony Perl:

That's, is that the Australian and New Zealand accent?

Anthony Perl:

I dunno.

Anthony Perl:

Um.

Anthony Perl:

But, uh, but look, why don't you do the first thing and do a bit of

Anthony Perl:

an introduction to the, uh, to the audience and tell us a little bit

Anthony Perl:

about who you are and what you do.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, look, thanks.

Anthony McMahon:

Thanks for that, Anthony.

Anthony McMahon:

And, uh, yes, there is that distinction with a why, uh, bites of the why.

Anthony McMahon:

And, and the reason for that is my, my podcast has a

Anthony McMahon:

slight technology theme to it.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, so I, I, I'm just gonna go through the, the journey of how I got to that

Anthony McMahon:

podcast and, and where it's come from.

Anthony McMahon:

So.

Anthony McMahon:

I, uh, my background is technology and working with businesses to help them,

Anthony McMahon:

uh, make smarter technology decisions and help 'em improve efficiency and,

Anthony McMahon:

and just get better at being business by doing better things with technology.

Anthony McMahon:

Uh, and.

Anthony McMahon:

I have been doing that for, since about 2018.

Anthony McMahon:

Prior to that, I was working for one of the large corporates here in

Anthony McMahon:

New Zealand, one of the large banks.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, and I took all those skills to, to go out to a small and

Anthony McMahon:

medium market for us as well.

Anthony McMahon:

And, and with biz Bytes, what I wanted to establish was a, a

Anthony McMahon:

channel where I was, uh, having good conversations with, with business

Anthony McMahon:

people, with people, not just business people, but with people about tech.

Anthony McMahon:

And, um, it's been an interesting one because I was

Anthony McMahon:

reflecting on this yesterday.

Anthony McMahon:

It's been going for.

Anthony McMahon:

Over five years now.

Anthony McMahon:

We started in 2020.

Anthony McMahon:

Uh, when I started it, I had a plan to meet a lot of people in

Anthony McMahon:

person, um, and record episodes.

Anthony McMahon:

And, uh, then the pandemic came up and so.

Anthony McMahon:

I've been recording through COVID and, and been doing a lot

Anthony McMahon:

of remote recording ever since.

Anthony McMahon:

But the idea of Biz of My Biz Bytes channel at least, uh, is a, it's

Anthony McMahon:

a show for people who want their technology investments around their

Anthony McMahon:

business, uh, to work and, and to learn how they could be fixing and,

Anthony McMahon:

and doing things differently to get a better outcome for their business.

Anthony McMahon:

Um.

Anthony McMahon:

Beyond that.

Anthony McMahon:

I'm a Kiwi, so I'm a tragic rugby supporter.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, just coming to grips with the fact of, of, we're halfway through another

Anthony McMahon:

rugby season, um, and we're about to start the international series.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, but my, my, I'm originally from Wellington, so the team

Anthony McMahon:

I support is the hurricanes.

Anthony McMahon:

Uh, and now I live in Auckland where, uh, I begrudgingly also support the blues,

Anthony McMahon:

which is very hard for anyone who's not from New Zealand to appreciate how hard it

Anthony McMahon:

is to get behind an Auckland rugby team.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, but I have two kids, uh, two young kids who are both, uh, blues fans.

Anthony McMahon:

So I, I I, I help them out when they need more support.

Anthony Perl:

I, I love it.

Anthony Perl:

Well, just to, just to confuse everyone, I am much more of a rugby

Anthony Perl:

league fan, so, um, can't tell you too much about Rugby Union, to be honest.

Anthony Perl:

Um, but, uh, uh, don't ke I don't keep too updated with it.

Anthony Perl:

Um, but certainly the New Zealand Warriors, on the other hand, um.

Anthony Perl:

Can tell you a little bit about them.

Anthony Perl:

Enjoy watching, enjoy watching them play.

Anthony Perl:

So, uh, isn't it, isn't it sort of up up the wires these days?

Anthony Perl:

Isn't that the, uh.

Anthony Perl:

That the big thing up, the wa

Anthony McMahon:

Yep.

Anthony McMahon:

That's, that came about and I heard yesterday, um, they've played on

Anthony McMahon:

the up the Waz with, uh, they've got the, the NRL women's team now,

Anthony McMahon:

which is the, the Warriors still.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, but they've, someone referred to them as the wni, um, Wahine being a, a Maori

Anthony McMahon:

word for, for, for, for women anyway.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, so they, they're playing on the up the wires into that as well, which is,

Anthony McMahon:

uh, very clever, very good marketing.

Anthony Perl:

I'd have to say when I first heard, when I first heard that, uh,

Anthony Perl:

and this talk about, you know, here we are getting our two podcasts confused.

Anthony Perl:

When I first, first heard up, the was, I thought they were talking about,

Anthony Perl:

strangely enough, as someone who is not a rugby union fan, I immediately

Anthony Perl:

thought of the wars being the New South Wales Rugby, rugby Union team.

Anthony Perl:

So I thought it was about them, and that turns out it was at all.

Anthony Perl:

So it's, uh, it, it just gets, just gets you very confused when they,

Anthony Perl:

when they do all of these things.

Anthony Perl:

But, uh, no, it's been very secure.

Anthony Perl:

Been very successful.

Anthony Perl:

But, um, you know, I'm fascinated about the technology side of things and

Anthony Perl:

let's just talk a little bit about that because it is, uh, it, it, it's a space.

Anthony Perl:

And we've had some discussions on this podcast as well about technology,

Anthony Perl:

but really from a point of view of, of, um, thought leaders and how

Anthony Perl:

they actually utilize it and the.

Anthony Perl:

The need to utilize it.

Anthony Perl:

And where, where do you draw those, those lines in?

Anthony Perl:

It, it's, it's, I think it's, it's channeling that from a what

Anthony Perl:

is a must do versus I'm being peer pressured into doing stuff.

Anthony McMahon:

Yeah.

Anthony McMahon:

Yeah.

Anthony McMahon:

And it's, it's a really good point.

Anthony McMahon:

Actually, just before this call, I was talking to a, a, another client of

Anthony McMahon:

mine, um, from, from a technology side.

Anthony McMahon:

They are, they're not-for-profit, so they're in an interesting position.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, but they.

Anthony McMahon:

Have estimated that with one supplier alone, they're spending

Anthony McMahon:

about 300 grand a year, um, in tech.

Anthony McMahon:

And part of that's happened inorganically, the, the, the

Anthony McMahon:

organization's growing and with it, their tech spend is growing as well.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, but they're now starting to ask good questions around whether that

Anthony McMahon:

supply is actually one is right for them, whether they're getting the right

Anthony McMahon:

spend and whether they're even getting, um, the right service from, from that

Anthony McMahon:

particular vendor, but also looking across their entire technology landscape.

Anthony McMahon:

It's not just, um.

Anthony McMahon:

The vendor side of it, but looking across everything and, and saying Where is it we

Anthony McMahon:

could be going and, and what do we need to be thinking about differently to, to

Anthony McMahon:

improve our organization and to maybe cut some cost out of what we do as well?

Anthony McMahon:

So.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, I talk about, and, and I've got one bubbling away as an episode that

Anthony McMahon:

I'm gonna be recording, but I talk about technology as not about systems.

Anthony McMahon:

It's about people, process and systems.

Anthony McMahon:

Systems just happen to be that tool that you use to, to deliver processes

Anthony McMahon:

and that people used to do their job.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, and I think for many organizations and, and many people out there,

Anthony McMahon:

they sort of mistake it and go, it's just all about the system.

Anthony McMahon:

That's all I need to worry about.

Anthony McMahon:

Whereas I'm looking at, at a, at a, at a full view of, of what's our,

Anthony McMahon:

what's our system that we are using, what processes that do that, does

Anthony McMahon:

that support what people are using it?

Anthony McMahon:

And then what partners might be helping support it as well.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

And I think as well there's, uh, and something that we've kind of

Anthony Perl:

touched on in a previous episode is you, you have to make sure that

Anthony Perl:

you've got quality as a foundation.

Anthony Perl:

Of course.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

Because the problem is if you systemize something that's a rubbish

Anthony Perl:

process in the first place, yes, you're gonna have a a system for it.

Anthony Perl:

And it might even be automated, but it's gonna produce the same kind

Anthony Perl:

of rubbish that you have in the.

Anthony Perl:

Now if it's not actually a good, a good, um, process in the beginning.

Anthony Perl:

Correct.

Anthony Perl:

And I think that's such an important thing that people, um, overlook that, you

Anthony Perl:

know, that idea of saying, well, are we systemizing something that is actually

Anthony McMahon:

good?

Anthony McMahon:

Yeah.

Anthony McMahon:

And, and that's a really good point that process side comes.

Anthony McMahon:

That that's why I focus on that process side of it as well.

Anthony McMahon:

And it's something I've often said on, on, um, through my Biz Bytes channel,

Anthony McMahon:

but also to my clients, is that.

Anthony McMahon:

If you take a bad process and put a good system over it, even if that

Anthony McMahon:

system is ai, it doesn't matter how much you spend on it, all you're

Anthony McMahon:

gonna achieve is bad outcomes faster.

Anthony McMahon:

So if we go far enough back with most organizations through robotic process

Anthony McMahon:

automation, the like, you know, um, championing that we can take a 10

Anthony McMahon:

minute process and run it in three, um.

Anthony McMahon:

Which means that instead of doing six an hour, we're doing 18 an hour, which

Anthony McMahon:

means if that process was doing a bad outcome, you're now doing that 18 times

Anthony McMahon:

an hour instead of, what did I say before?

Anthony McMahon:

10 times an hour, six times an hour.

Anthony McMahon:

So, um, is that what your business really wants?

Anthony McMahon:

And, and that's why you've gotta take it back to the process, but also the

Anthony McMahon:

people, you know, are they invested in this and do they understand what

Anthony McMahon:

the change is gonna be and how it's gonna impact them and how it's gonna

Anthony McMahon:

help them as well, um, because of you.

Anthony McMahon:

Don't bring the people on that same journey of as you're improving process

Anthony McMahon:

and you are, um, bringing new systems in.

Anthony McMahon:

Uh, they might not use it and therefore it's a bad investment as well.

Anthony Perl:

I, I wanna come back to that in a second, but I just wanna make

Anthony Perl:

the point as well to, to people that are listening in, um, that one of the biggest

Anthony Perl:

areas that people focus on, particularly with technology and AI in particular

Anthony Perl:

and recent times, is around content.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

And this is a really great example of where the sort of the, the, um, you know,

Anthony Perl:

unless you give it something that is.

Anthony Perl:

Yours that is authentic.

Anthony Perl:

That is your stories and your content and your way of thinking what it is going

Anthony Perl:

to produce is not going to be great.

Anthony Perl:

No, it's also going to be, and it's not gonna be great in a definition of the fact

Anthony Perl:

that it could be anybody else's material.

Anthony Perl:

It may or may not exist.

Anthony Perl:

Yep.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, because we know that AI has a way of falsifying stuff mm-hmm.

Anthony Perl:

And making things up.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, and so ultimately what you're producing is not

Anthony Perl:

doing your business any good.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

So it may look great, you know, you may read it and you go, oh, that's

Anthony Perl:

a really great piece of content.

Anthony Perl:

And I couldn't have written that.

Anthony Perl:

And that's actually the key.

Anthony Perl:

I couldn't have written that.

Anthony Perl:

Therefore, it is a problem.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, and I think, you know, basing it on your tone of voice, basing it on your

Anthony Perl:

stories, on what you've authentically said is a whole different ballgame.

Anthony Perl:

Mm. And it's one of the reasons, you know.

Anthony Perl:

Um, and, and we've talked about it off air, but you know, one of the reasons

Anthony Perl:

why I love podcasting is because you generate this authentic content.

Anthony Perl:

And so the transcript allows you to reutilize that content in

Anthony Perl:

a multitude of different ways, including getting facilitated by a

Anthony Perl:

ai because you're saying to the ai, use only this transcript to produce.

Anthony Perl:

You know, something, then it can do that.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

Now for those of us, like me who prefer to be creative and love writing

Anthony Perl:

anyway, you know, doesn't get used as much as it, as it might do, but there

Anthony Perl:

are a lot of people that it takes a lot of time to write quality content.

Anthony Perl:

Yes, that's fine, but based it on a real, what you're really saying.

Anthony Perl:

Absolutely.

Anthony Perl:

And, and I think it, it, it, that principle is what extends to everything

Anthony Perl:

that you do in an organization.

Anthony Perl:

'cause when you bringing it back to what you're talking about in

Anthony Perl:

terms of processes and systems.

Anthony Perl:

There's a myriad of things from the operational side right through to the

Anthony Perl:

sales and marketing and even, and even, you know, servicing existing clients

Anthony Perl:

and keeping in contact with them.

Anthony Perl:

There's a multitude of ways that you can bring technology into those

Anthony Perl:

different elements of the business.

Anthony McMahon:

Absolutely.

Anthony McMahon:

And, and just on that content piece, there's, there's, it's

Anthony McMahon:

a mistake I made last year for.

Anthony McMahon:

I, I, I think it was chat, GPT.

Anthony McMahon:

Anyway, I, I, I needed a monthly in newsletter and I just threw

Anthony McMahon:

it in chat, GPT and said, grant me a monthly in newsletter.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, and I did and I put it into my, uh, MailChimp channel

Anthony McMahon:

and went go and it went out.

Anthony McMahon:

And a month later I came back and went.

Anthony McMahon:

But that just felt so Inge, uh, uh, ungenuine, I know it's not a word,

Anthony McMahon:

but it just didn't feel real and it didn't feel like something I'd write.

Anthony McMahon:

And I actually owned it as well, um, to, to talk about exactly what you're

Anthony McMahon:

talking about was I owned it and went, look, I just put too much faith in the

Anthony McMahon:

technology there and I can't even tell you what I talked about last month.

Anthony McMahon:

Not gonna do that again.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, and that then highlights one of those dangers of, of over reliance of systems.

Anthony McMahon:

You know, if you bring the, if you forget about the people and

Anthony McMahon:

the process and you over rely on systems, you do get that inauthentic.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, customer experience at the end of the day as well.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, and I think, I think it's really important to

Anthony Perl:

remember the simple fact that people still do business with people.

Anthony Perl:

It is a saying that comes up all the time.

Anthony Perl:

Mm-hmm.

Anthony Perl:

And it's not going to stop coming up because yes, there are certain

Anthony Perl:

products and services where you don't need human interaction.

Anthony Perl:

And I get that.

Anthony Perl:

That can, that can happen in certain businesses, but the majority of

Anthony Perl:

businesses, that isn't the case.

Anthony Perl:

And you are doing business with a person.

Anthony Perl:

And how that person responds to you is.

Anthony Perl:

Everything.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

And whether you are, uh, running a restaurant or you are, um, you know,

Anthony Perl:

a manufacturing, uh, you know, a large ticket item or you know, smaller or

Anthony Perl:

ser doing some sort of service related business that's somewhere in between.

Anthony Perl:

It doesn't matter.

Anthony Perl:

There are people involved at every step of that process, and that, that creative

Anthony Perl:

insight, uh, is what is of huge value and, and should not be lost in all of this.

Anthony Perl:

I mean, the technology should be helping things go faster.

Anthony Perl:

But still based on quality and also creativity.

Anthony Perl:

Absolutely,

Anthony McMahon:

absolutely agree.

Anthony McMahon:

If and as long as you get all of that right, there's no problem, um, in what

Anthony McMahon:

technology and, and the technology choice actually becomes academic at a

Anthony McMahon:

point as well of, uh, and this is, this is a conversation I have with a lot of

Anthony McMahon:

clients through the day where, oh, should we use HubSpot or should we use Zoho?

Anthony McMahon:

Or should we go to Salesforce?

Anthony McMahon:

That doesn't matter.

Anthony McMahon:

That's, we'll figure that one out at the end of this journey.

Anthony McMahon:

What we've gotta figure out first is what problems do you need to solve?

Anthony McMahon:

Why are they problems in the first place?

Anthony McMahon:

And then how are we gonna solve them?

Anthony McMahon:

And eventually, once we've asked though, and, and, sorry,

Anthony McMahon:

there's a fourth one in there.

Anthony McMahon:

Do we even need to solve them?

Anthony Perl:

We

Anthony McMahon:

hope

Anthony Perl:

you're enjoying listening to the Biz Buys podcast.

Anthony Perl:

Have you ever thought about having your own podcast, one for your

Anthony Perl:

business where your brilliance is exposed to the rest of the world?

Anthony Perl:

Well come talk to us at podcast.

Anthony Perl:

Done for You.

Anthony Perl:

That's what we're all about.

Anthony Perl:

We even offer a service where I'll anchor the program for you.

Anthony Perl:

So all you have to do is show up for a conversation, but don't worry about that.

Anthony Perl:

We will do everything to design a program that suits you.

Anthony Perl:

From the strategy right through to publishing and of

Anthony Perl:

course helping you share it.

Anthony Perl:

So come talk to us podcast done for you.com au details

Anthony Perl:

in the show notes below.

Anthony Perl:

Now back to Biz Bytes.

Anthony McMahon:

Uh, and this is, this is a conversation I have with a

Anthony McMahon:

lot of clients through the day, with, should we use HubSpot or should we use

Anthony McMahon:

Zoho, or should we go to Salesforce?

Anthony McMahon:

That doesn't matter.

Anthony McMahon:

That's, we'll figure that one out at the end of this journey.

Anthony McMahon:

What we've gotta figure out first is what problems do you need to solve?

Anthony McMahon:

Why are they problems in the first place?

Anthony McMahon:

And then how are we gonna solve them?

Anthony McMahon:

And eventually, once we've asked those and, and, sorry, there's a fourth one

Anthony McMahon:

in there, do we even need to solve them?

Anthony McMahon:

Um, and once we've answered those four, we can actually then turn around

Anthony McMahon:

and go, right here's the right system to solve those problems as well.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, and I think that's, that, that is the

Anthony Perl:

important bit as well, because.

Anthony Perl:

You can also get hung up on the latest and greatest in technology and, and

Anthony Perl:

that's a never ending cycle, right?

Anthony Perl:

What you recommend today can change tomorrow because tomorrow you didn't know

Anthony Perl:

that this new company was coming up or, or there was an update on, on someone

Anthony Perl:

else's system that now puts them ahead of what you were recommending yesterday.

Anthony Perl:

Like that is a never ending cycle, and it's really you.

Anthony Perl:

You have to be focused on what you actually need and not.

Anthony Perl:

The frilly bits around the outside that you think you're going to use and then

Anthony Perl:

realize it's, you're just never gonna

Anthony McMahon:

use it.

Anthony McMahon:

Yeah, absolutely.

Anthony McMahon:

And, and it's something that I've given this feedback today, even to

Anthony McMahon:

a, to a vendor, but it's something that, um, really grinds my gears

Anthony McMahon:

to, to, to put it bluntly, is, is the way most technology sales cycle

Anthony McMahon:

have taken on a demo led approach.

Anthony McMahon:

What they're trying to get you to do is get you on a phone call, get you on a

Anthony McMahon:

video call, give you a demo of that system where they take an hour to run you through

Anthony McMahon:

the whole system and what it can do and how amazing it is and why it's better

Anthony McMahon:

than this, and why it's better than that.

Anthony McMahon:

And I'm sitting there going, I don't need the demo.

Anthony McMahon:

What I need you to do is show me how it solves my problem.

Anthony McMahon:

This is the problem I need to solve.

Anthony McMahon:

I need your demo to take me through and show me how you'll solve that problem.

Anthony McMahon:

And then we can start talking about the next step.

Anthony McMahon:

But I, I'm not interested in how you do user management.

Anthony McMahon:

I'm not interested into why this screen is yellow or green or blue

Anthony McMahon:

or purple, or whatever that means.

Anthony McMahon:

We'll get to that later.

Anthony McMahon:

Show me how you're gonna solve my problem.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, and I, I, it's so easy because we, you

Anthony Perl:

know, in a typical sales process.

Anthony Perl:

We tend to focus on those things that we don't need.

Anthony Perl:

I mean, I, I, the, the, the good example is when you, um, go to buy a new car that

Anthony Perl:

they don't start off with the base model.

Anthony Perl:

They never start off with the base model.

Anthony Perl:

They start you off at the high end.

Anthony Perl:

And for the, for good reason, because the simple, the simple equation is

Anthony Perl:

this, that you walk in and they say, well, this one comes with the sunroof.

Anthony Perl:

It comes with larger wheels.

Anthony Perl:

It's got a bigger screen, it's got leather seats, it's got a Dolby system.

Anthony Perl:

And you're sitting and then you're going, you're imagining yourself

Anthony Perl:

in this car and oh, that's great.

Anthony Perl:

And look, if you want something that's a little bit cheaper, look,

Anthony Perl:

there's no sunroof in this one.

Anthony Perl:

There's no wheels and there's no, uh, and we still get the leather seats.

Anthony Perl:

You still get a sort of slightly smaller speakers and slightly smaller screen,

Anthony Perl:

but you know, it's, it's pretty good.

Anthony Perl:

And then they say, well, look, if you really need to save money, we'll

Anthony Perl:

take you to the base model look.

Anthony Perl:

And there's just, there's no leather seats.

Anthony Perl:

It's a small screen, it's a standard wheels, there's no sunroof.

Anthony Perl:

And you've already imagined yourself with all of these other things, and

Anthony Perl:

you, in your mind, you're trying to work out how can I actually justify it?

Anthony Perl:

The intriguing thing, and I've, you know, I've, I've been in this situation

Anthony Perl:

myself, where the intriguing thing is, is you've come out of a car that

Anthony Perl:

has no screen in it at all, right?

Anthony Perl:

You've been using your, you've only had your phone sitting there and

Anthony Perl:

mounted, mounted on the side, and looking at that when you need to,

Anthony Perl:

when you need to for directions.

Anthony Perl:

You know, you certainly haven't had the wheels or the leather seats and all the

Anthony Perl:

rest of it, but it's so, it's very hard though to not jump to that other end.

Anthony Perl:

And we tend to do that in business as well, where we pay attention to

Anthony Perl:

those extra things that are being offered and say, well, it comes with,

Anthony Perl:

and CRMs are great example, right?

Anthony Perl:

Where there's CRMs come with so many bells and whistles, but is your business

Anthony Perl:

actually set up to deal with those?

Anthony Perl:

Are you re, are they tools you.

Anthony Perl:

Need to use because you, you might, uh, you might want to use

Anthony Perl:

them, but do you need to use them?

Anthony Perl:

Because if you don't really need to use them in the end, what you, what you want

Anthony Perl:

to do might be a long way off and you might be paying for it for a few years

Anthony Perl:

before you ev ever get that opportunity.

Anthony Perl:

Absolutely.

Anthony McMahon:

Ab absolutely.

Anthony McMahon:

And, and it's also the, and, and your car example is, is spot on for

Anthony McMahon:

another experience that happened with I I. I do this on my podcast as well.

Anthony McMahon:

I like to bring in personal experiences to, to some of those stories, to,

Anthony McMahon:

to just to bring them to life.

Anthony McMahon:

But I was in a rental car and it was a Toyota Corolla big

Anthony McMahon:

screen right in the middle.

Anthony McMahon:

Our Toyota Corolla that we have at home doesn't have a

Anthony McMahon:

screen, so that, that was cool.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, and the reason I had the rental car is I had to fly down

Anthony McMahon:

halfway down the north island.

Anthony McMahon:

Uh, new Plymouth, which is a city on the, um, west coast of the North Island.

Anthony McMahon:

Uh, and then I had to drive inland for an hour to see a client.

Anthony McMahon:

So I had a rental car for, for that.

Anthony McMahon:

I'm not from New Plymouth.

Anthony McMahon:

I'm not familiar with the road.

Anthony McMahon:

So sat nav was gonna be pretty key for me, and I got on the car, turned

Anthony McMahon:

it on, and there was a, a message on the screen saying you have not

Anthony McMahon:

subscribed to the navigation services.

Anthony McMahon:

I mean, I get it right.

Anthony McMahon:

A, a rental car company's not going to, um, so to, to have

Anthony McMahon:

a subscription on their cars.

Anthony McMahon:

But what got me was two or three years ago, I would've jumped in that car and

Anthony McMahon:

I'd appeared my phone and it would've worked, and it would've been fine.

Anthony McMahon:

And, and in this case, I paired my phone so I could make phone calls on the move.

Anthony McMahon:

Google Maps still didn't link to that computer, uh, to that screen.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, so I had to have my phone in a position on, on the dashboard

Anthony McMahon:

where I could see where I was going, which was fine.

Anthony McMahon:

It was somewhere, it was, it was, there was, there was nothing unsafe about

Anthony McMahon:

it, if anyone's concerned about that.

Anthony McMahon:

But what it got me thinking was, one, there's a service that's actually

Anthony McMahon:

quite valuable to me that I can't get because I'm not subscribed,

Anthony McMahon:

and again, it's not my car.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, and two, the, the solution that I have didn't integrate.

Anthony McMahon:

And there's a really good metaphor for technology there as well with,

Anthony McMahon:

um, uh, when you go and buy a system on the promise that it's got

Anthony McMahon:

this thing, you know, the car has sat, there's just not turned on.

Anthony McMahon:

And technology can be the same where you think you are buying one thing, but then

Anthony McMahon:

you find there's an extra add-on, uh, and an additional hidden cost to that.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, and then you also find that maybe one of your existing systems doesn't integrate

Anthony McMahon:

that well with what you've just bought.

Anthony McMahon:

And that's why.

Anthony McMahon:

It comes into working through what the problem you're trying to solve is, and

Anthony McMahon:

how you're gonna solve that, and why you need to solve that, and looking at what

Anthony McMahon:

else is around and what else you're using.

Anthony McMahon:

Because if the tool that you've bought doesn't integrate with one of your

Anthony McMahon:

other core pieces of technology, why, why did you buy it in the first place?

Anthony Perl:

And, and, and you know, it's also about the, what you're

Anthony Perl:

doing to clients or to your team as a result of it not working properly.

Anthony Perl:

Because the, the, you know, your satellite, um, navigation

Anthony Perl:

is a perfect example, right?

Anthony Perl:

Where the hard thing is is you're in the car and you're going, well,

Anthony Perl:

surely the rental company could have got around this and made this work.

Anthony Perl:

Like, why?

Anthony Perl:

W you know, did that or should they have warned you beforehand?

Anthony Perl:

Mm-hmm.

Anthony Perl:

And even worse, like I, I find it, um, they, and the rental companies

Anthony Perl:

used to do this, do you want to pay extra for the satellite navigation?

Anthony Perl:

I dunno that they do.

Anthony Perl:

I don't rent cars very often, but, uh, nowadays you, you wouldn't do that

Anthony Perl:

because hey, you just got, you've got it on your phone and you've got free

Anthony Perl:

access to Google Maps or to, to, and so.

Anthony Perl:

It, but it's just seems like such a silly thing.

Anthony Perl:

So now you feel bad about the rental company, like you have a negative,

Anthony Perl:

negative feeling towards them as a result of that, and that experience of being let

Anthony Perl:

down by something that perhaps they didn't even need to offer in that way or could

Anthony Perl:

have found a way around it, uh, would've made you feel completely differently.

Anthony Perl:

And I think that's a, it, it's a, it's a. Perfect example.

Anthony Perl:

Mm-hmm.

Anthony Perl:

Where technology not doing all the things that it can do, but not doing

Anthony Perl:

the core of what it needs to do well.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

Is a huge problem.

Anthony McMahon:

Absolutely.

Anthony McMahon:

Absolutely.

Anthony McMahon:

And to to that point about the customer experience, you know, part of me

Anthony McMahon:

is now we have Corolla that Corolla will eventually need to be replaced.

Anthony McMahon:

And right back to your point at the start there about you can get the base model

Anthony McMahon:

with none of the bells and whistles, or you can have the expanded model.

Anthony McMahon:

I'm, I'm don't really care about the car with a screen.

Anthony McMahon:

If the car with a screen doesn't come with satin nav and doesn't work with

Anthony McMahon:

my phone, we'll just get rid of that screen and I'll just carry on doing

Anthony McMahon:

what I'm doing now, which is having the phone mounted on a cradle on the

Anthony McMahon:

dashboard so that I can use Google Map.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's exactly it.

Anthony Perl:

It's, it's, um, you know, I, I think it's such an important idea that

Anthony Perl:

businesses need to think about is.

Anthony Perl:

What are they saying to team members?

Anthony Perl:

What are they saying to, uh, the rest of the, the clients or suppliers

Anthony Perl:

by having something there that doesn't function as it should?

Anthony Perl:

Mm. Because that's part of the problem is that people buy into this

Anthony Perl:

whole idea, well, it should do this.

Anthony Perl:

Mm. And, and, and the reality is, is the technology is not

Anthony Perl:

keeping up with our expectations.

Anthony Perl:

And our expectations are being set unfairly by larger companies.

Anthony Perl:

You know, I'd say unfairly for, from smaller business point of view, because

Anthony Perl:

larger businesses that can invest in a whole bunch of things can do stuff

Anthony Perl:

that smaller businesses can't do.

Anthony Perl:

Correct.

Anthony Perl:

And so, but they set the expectation.

Anthony Perl:

Mm-hmm.

Anthony Perl:

You know, uh, to a large degree you've got these big companies that,

Anthony Perl:

Amazon's a good example, right.

Anthony Perl:

Where they can set up and organize that you can have

Anthony Perl:

something delivered the next day.

Anthony Perl:

Mm-hmm.

Anthony Perl:

They'll take a photograph of it at your door and they'll give

Anthony Perl:

you tracking along the way.

Anthony Perl:

All of these kind, and they won't charge you extra for the, for it if you've

Anthony Perl:

got a membership, all of these things.

Anthony Perl:

Right.

Anthony Perl:

That as a small business, you don't necess, you can't

Anthony Perl:

necessarily compete with that.

Anthony Perl:

Mm-hmm.

Anthony Perl:

And, uh, and, and the expectations that get set by people, uh,

Anthony Perl:

as a result of that can be.

Anthony Perl:

Unfair and difficult to manage.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, and you're constantly keeping up with the latest and greatest in that respect.

Anthony Perl:

So you do have to stay in your wheelhouse and, and do what you do well.

Anthony Perl:

Mm-hmm.

Anthony Perl:

And understand that there are certain things that the technology

Anthony Perl:

doesn't allow you to do right now.

Anthony Perl:

Focus on what it does do well, and again, make sure as you say it is compatible.

Anthony Perl:

With what you've already got, where people are comfortable with it, and,

Anthony Perl:

uh, and it's integral to what you're

Anthony McMahon:

doing.

Anthony McMahon:

Mm mm Exactly.

Anthony McMahon:

And, and, and that's where the sales cycle of technology should be disrupted

Anthony McMahon:

by the customer, not by or dictated by the customer, not by the, um, salesperson.

Anthony McMahon:

Uh, because they should be looking at it from a, what is it gonna do

Anthony McMahon:

for me and, and what else have I got?

Anthony McMahon:

You know, there's a whole journey they should be getting to before they

Anthony McMahon:

even get on that first sales call.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

I mean, and, and that's it.

Anthony Perl:

It's, and it's, it's that interaction with real people often, uh, not exclusively

Anthony Perl:

anymore, because I know there are ais that are handling some of the sales side

Anthony Perl:

of things, but it is the interactions.

Anthony Perl:

Even if it is with an AI and understanding some of the expectations that are being

Anthony Perl:

set by people and as to then what you are prepared to deliver as a result of it.

Anthony Perl:

Because I think we've all been gi um, been guilty in business of saying we're

Anthony Perl:

going to do something and then realizing we're not really set up to do it.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, you know, and, and, and actually delivering that consistently.

Anthony Perl:

Is hard.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

And, uh, you know, I, I mean, in, in my world, certainly that's one of the reasons

Anthony Perl:

why I established the podcast Done for You Service was because a lot of people

Anthony Perl:

were having exactly that with a podcast.

Anthony Perl:

And, and you and I both know, there's a lot of effort that

Anthony Perl:

goes into producing a podcast.

Anthony Perl:

People think, oh, it's just a, you know.

Anthony Perl:

Certain amount of recording, but it's not the recording time, it's

Anthony Perl:

the, you know, it's the post.

Anthony Perl:

Anthony and I exchanged messages beforehand, uh,

Anthony Perl:

before we actually got in here.

Anthony Perl:

We had a few minutes of chatting before we hit the record button.

Anthony Perl:

Mm-hmm.

Anthony Perl:

And there's all the post-production that needs to happen with it before

Anthony Perl:

we even get to the publishing it.

Anthony Perl:

And, uh, and then ultimately also, uh, promoting it.

Anthony Perl:

And so.

Anthony Perl:

By the time you are watching this or listening to this, it's

Anthony Perl:

you, you're at that end phase.

Anthony Perl:

So it's not just a five minute, oh we'll just, you know, we just have to do a,

Anthony Perl:

put a couple of fancy things on the end that's automated and off it goes.

Anthony Perl:

It's not like that, and I think it's the right reason why.

Anthony Perl:

A lot of things that businesses promise end up failing, and as I said, podcast

Anthony Perl:

is one of those things where there's, you realize there's so much effort involved

Anthony Perl:

that takes you away from what your core is that you don't end up offering.

Anthony Perl:

Exactly.

Anthony Perl:

And it gets back down to things like, again, it's why Podcast Done for You is

Anthony Perl:

here so you don't have to worry about it.

Anthony Perl:

But it's why a lot of technology is also there so that you can do that.

Anthony Perl:

But, but again, you, technology that's gonna deliver something that's

Anthony Perl:

an extra that you don't have time to really service is of no value.

Anthony Perl:

Correct?

Anthony Perl:

Correct.

Anthony Perl:

And,

Anthony McMahon:

um, not just.

Anthony McMahon:

The, the, the, um, system itself.

Anthony McMahon:

But if the training and the knowledge and the expertise, so again, it could

Anthony McMahon:

be the best system in the world and it could look amazing, but if your people

Anthony McMahon:

aren't prepared either through the time or capacity or um, just whatever's

Anthony McMahon:

going on at the moment to, to learn that system, then it's, it's something

Anthony McMahon:

that maybe you hold off on and, and don't buy right now, uh, because what

Anthony McMahon:

you're doing might be good enough.

Anthony McMahon:

You know, it sounds strange to say this coming from a

Anthony McMahon:

technology consultant, but from.

Anthony McMahon:

From my perspective, you've gotta look at it more than just

Anthony McMahon:

a, we're buying a new system.

Anthony McMahon:

But you've actually gotta look at it as we're taking our

Anthony McMahon:

organization through a change.

Anthony McMahon:

And whether you've got five people or 500 people or 5,000 people, they

Anthony McMahon:

need to be prepared to change as well.

Anthony McMahon:

Because if they're not, that investment you've just made in

Anthony McMahon:

that system is, is going nowhere.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

And I think it's important that you do sit down, isn't it, with technology and

Anthony Perl:

understand before you're choosing what it is that you, you know, defining things in

Anthony Perl:

really in categories of what is absolute absolutely critical and what is not.

Anthony Perl:

So you don't get, as you say, taken up by those things that are the, the

Anthony Perl:

nice to have but don't really need.

Anthony McMahon:

Exactly.

Anthony McMahon:

Yeah.

Anthony McMahon:

It's the, the and and, and when do we need to have the py as well?

Anthony McMahon:

You know, it's, um.

Anthony McMahon:

Flip this around a different way actually, is, is the other

Anthony McMahon:

side of the technology equation.

Anthony McMahon:

We've got it running and it's, it's, um, a story I heard many, many years ago

Anthony McMahon:

about incident or service management.

Anthony McMahon:

Service management being, uh, the process of managing your technologies.

Anthony McMahon:

And this was a large organization, large retail organization where they

Anthony McMahon:

had serious level agreements in place.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, and the technology team reported on those every month to

Anthony McMahon:

the, to the core business units.

Anthony McMahon:

And they went to.

Anthony McMahon:

The head of the retail chain in January and said, oh, we are really stoked

Anthony McMahon:

to, to, to report that we made 99.99% uptime on the pause system last month.

Anthony McMahon:

So pause point of sale, and the, the, the, the story goes that the director

Anthony McMahon:

turned around and said, that's great, but that 1% or 0.1%, that was Christmas

Anthony McMahon:

Eve and we're a retail store and our customers couldn't buy anything.

Anthony McMahon:

So I don't wanna hear about how good you were.

Anthony McMahon:

I want you to explain to me why it was that bad.

Anthony McMahon:

And I think that's the same thing from a, from a buying systems as well, is don't

Anthony McMahon:

look at all the things you think you need.

Anthony McMahon:

Take away that noise and look at what you don't need and see how much of

Anthony McMahon:

that balance is, and, and which, which side of the ledger is balanced on that.

Anthony McMahon:

If it's got more of what you don't need, maybe there's a cheaper

Anthony McMahon:

system to, to solve your problems.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, and, and that's it, isn't it?

Anthony Perl:

It's it's, there's so much noise around at the moment.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, around different things that it's easy to get swayed and, uh, I, I know I

Anthony Perl:

recently made a decision around a CRM for the business and, uh, the decision was, do

Anthony Perl:

you know, that I was looking at was, do I stay with where I'm at or do I move to one

Anthony Perl:

of these newer ones that people were, you know, lots of people were talking about

Anthony Perl:

and were interacting with, with a couple of businesses that I was dealing with?

Anthony Perl:

And it was a really interesting process to go through.

Anthony Perl:

And, uh, in the end circled back and went well.

Anthony Perl:

Part of it was the amount of effort that was involved for very little gain

Anthony Perl:

to shift was not worth the effort.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

And uh, you know, and what's interesting too is when some of the hype wears off,

Anthony Perl:

some of the um, uh, some of the ones that you were thinking about, you start going.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

When it really gets down to it, is it really all that it's cracked up to be?

Anthony Perl:

And I think that's it.

Anthony Perl:

It talking to people and taking your time to do it and not just jumping.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, I, I think the one lesson I've certainly seen as far as

Anthony Perl:

technology is concerned if there's a deal today that's running out.

Anthony Perl:

Tomorrow, you can guarantee there'll be another deal next week.

Anthony Perl:

Yep.

Anthony Perl:

It's, it's, uh, or that if they really want you, they'll circle back to that deal

Anthony Perl:

that they had offer on offer a week ago.

Anthony Perl:

So don't, don't necessarily get sold into the, into the sales pitch

Anthony Perl:

when it comes to technology there.

Anthony Perl:

You know, it's not something that I do in my business.

Anthony Perl:

I don't offer those kinds of, those kinds of deals, uh, for good reason, but

Anthony Perl:

because exactly that psychology, right?

Anthony Perl:

Mm. That, um, if the, if it was worth a hundred dollars a month.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, in terms of a discounted rate, and now they're going to say it's

Anthony Perl:

gone back up to $125 a month.

Anthony Perl:

Well, my value is what you valued it at, at the discounted rate,

Anthony Perl:

which is a hundred dollars a month.

Anthony Perl:

Yep.

Anthony Perl:

If it was discounted before, it's because that's what the true value

Anthony Perl:

of it is, and even, even then, you're making a profit on it.

Anthony Perl:

So I'm not paying 125.

Anthony Perl:

So go back to it.

Anthony Perl:

Yep.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, and, and I, and so it always strikes me as strange when businesses

Anthony Perl:

do that, but that's a big swayer in the technology department.

Anthony Perl:

Mm

Anthony McMahon:

mm definitely, definitely.

Anthony McMahon:

I mean, there's, there's plenty of, uh, retail chains that have lost

Anthony McMahon:

leaders that, um, supermarkets are really good for it, aren't they?

Anthony McMahon:

They've got a loss leader because they know that you'll

Anthony McMahon:

come in and, uh, we've got.

Anthony McMahon:

Uh, Costco in, in Auckland here, international chain, one of

Anthony McMahon:

their loss leaders is butter.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, because people are going in to buy a kg of butter for whatever it is,

Anthony McMahon:

which is cheaper than a half kg butter block in the regular supermarkets.

Anthony McMahon:

Once you're in Costco, you might as well spend the rest of it, right?

Anthony McMahon:

Um, and that's the same, I, I agree with what you're saying.

Anthony McMahon:

With the discounting.

Anthony McMahon:

I, I avoid discounting on my services as well.

Anthony McMahon:

'cause the price I've set is the price I've set.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, yep.

Anthony McMahon:

It's the most realistic price for what I can charge, uh, and still

Anthony McMahon:

cover all the expenses and everything else and still earn a living.

Anthony McMahon:

Uh, and so that's why I haven't gone higher than that, and therefore I'm

Anthony McMahon:

not gonna go lower than that as well.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, it's, it's, uh, psychology behind all of those

Anthony Perl:

things, but I think, you know.

Anthony Perl:

We could get into the whole pricing thing as old, separate discussion,

Anthony Perl:

but I think what's important here to understand is, is also the value

Anthony Perl:

that you place on technology that you're bringing into the business.

Anthony Perl:

Mm. It's, it's how do you actually value, and that process in itself

Anthony Perl:

is a. A difficult one because you get sold on subscriptions very easy.

Anthony Perl:

Oh, it's just another a hundred dollars, it's just another $50.

Anthony Perl:

And, and suddenly you're spending quite a lot of money on subscriptions to

Anthony Perl:

things and are you actually using them?

Anthony Perl:

So that's one part, but it is, um, defining the value for a business

Anthony Perl:

of whatever it is you, you know, is that it might only be a hundred

Anthony Perl:

dollars, but is that, are you actually getting that value out of it?

Anthony Perl:

Um, or not?

Anthony Perl:

Because I've seen some businesses where the technology that they've

Anthony Perl:

brought in has sped up one part of the process, but created a whole

Anthony Perl:

new set of work somewhere else.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

So, and is that end outcome actually better for anybody or not?

Anthony Perl:

Has it just created more work in

Anthony McMahon:

another area?

Anthony Perl:

Yeah,

Anthony McMahon:

and, and I've definitely seen examples of that.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, big companies are very good at doing this, where they've got

Anthony McMahon:

a, a, a decentralized value chain where different parts of the

Anthony McMahon:

business are doing different things.

Anthony McMahon:

And by putting technology in at the start, all I've done is move

Anthony McMahon:

the bottleneck slightly further down the ba the value chain.

Anthony McMahon:

Uh, and it's where from a technology strategy, any business, again, no matter

Anthony McMahon:

how big or small they are, needs to look at it as the whole of the value chain

Anthony McMahon:

and not just what their one piece is.

Anthony McMahon:

Uh, if you are the sales team, um, and you apply a new CRM, that means

Anthony McMahon:

you're getting more leads faster.

Anthony McMahon:

You wanna make sure that the people who are fulfilling that

Anthony McMahon:

at the other end of the channel.

Anthony McMahon:

Are gonna be able to fulfill it in that order.

Anthony McMahon:

Uh, and I, I think back to a conversation I once had with the marketing team when

Anthony McMahon:

I was working at the bank that I was working at, um, and said, Hey, you know,

Anthony McMahon:

you run these marketing campaigns, it'd be really nice if you just gave us a

Anthony McMahon:

heads up, um, that they were happening.

Anthony McMahon:

They're like, why would you need a heads up?

Anthony McMahon:

I was like, I imagine like if it was so successful that you had 10,000 people

Anthony McMahon:

coming through the doors on the first day, we, we kind of wanna make sure our systems

Anthony McMahon:

were available and ready to go for that.

Anthony McMahon:

And the, the response sort of shook me on them 'cause they went.

Anthony McMahon:

Oh, we never get that many customers through the door on the first day,

Anthony McMahon:

and my first thought was, well, why are you running the campaign then?

Anthony McMahon:

Um, it's, but it's, it, it was, it was coming back to that point of, if you

Anthony McMahon:

can tell us when there's a campaign on, we'll make sure the systems are

Anthony McMahon:

available so that the, that, that the staff in the middle of this can

Anthony McMahon:

actually service what you're offering.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

And, and that's that, it's such an important point, right?

Anthony Perl:

That isn't it, that you, you can bring in something in one end.

Anthony Perl:

And I, and this is a, you know, it leads me to an example that I had

Anthony Perl:

with a, a previous guest on the, on this program a little while ago.

Anthony Perl:

Um, and those of you, uh, will remember the discussion with, with JD

Anthony Perl:

about de about, uh, direct marketing.

Anthony Perl:

And I know one of the examples he gave where he, uh, did

Anthony Perl:

some direct marketing work.

Anthony Perl:

For a, uh, a small business, a tradie, and, uh, they generated 300 odd.

Anthony Perl:

Inquiries, uh, and, uh, the, the, um, business owner said, well, that's

Anthony Perl:

fantastic, but I've got no way of making 300, returning 300 phone calls.

Anthony Perl:

Mm. Like, what am I supposed to do now?

Anthony Perl:

Now, that's where the, that's where the AI has come in and made those

Anthony Perl:

phone calls and book things in for him in advance, which is fantastic,

Anthony Perl:

uh, to, to be able to do that.

Anthony Perl:

And, but that's the point is that unless you've got that at the end

Anthony Perl:

and you've, you know, they were able to facilitate that happening.

Anthony Perl:

Then otherwise you just, well, what's the point?

Anthony Perl:

And I, I, I think a lot of people don't consider that, um, if you

Anthony Perl:

know that that needs to be involved.

Anthony Perl:

And it's, and it's always intrigues me when people start off with then with

Anthony Perl:

the marketing side of things and they generate this whole bunch of leads and

Anthony Perl:

it's like, well actually, have you got the time to answer all those queries?

Anthony Perl:

Have you got the salespeople that are going to convert it?

Anthony Perl:

And then if you do get some in, how do you actually get.

Anthony Perl:

The, uh, you know, the, you know, facilitate that.

Anthony Perl:

'cause what are, what is it that you're capable of delivering and

Anthony Perl:

where are you gonna run into troubles?

Anthony Perl:

Have you got backups and things in place?

Anthony Perl:

So, you know, I know for my business, for example, we've got, uh, you know,

Anthony Perl:

access to additional resources, should we, you know, get a massive rush on people.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, who want, uh, podcasts done yesterday instead of, you know, for you now.

Anthony Perl:

Yep.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, and, uh, and that, and that happens at times.

Anthony Perl:

So we've got, we can facilitate that when that happens.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, but not all businesses are set up that way, and I think that's important

Anthony Perl:

with technology is to look at it and go, where is your actual starting point?

Anthony Perl:

Uh, to make sure that you are ready to handle things.

Anthony Perl:

Mm. And, and you've got the efficiencies.

Anthony Perl:

Do you start with the marketing or do you start at the operational level?

Anthony Perl:

Mm,

Anthony McMahon:

exactly.

Anthony McMahon:

Yeah.

Anthony McMahon:

Where's, where's the point?

Anthony McMahon:

And, and something I'm going through for myself at the moment, not with

Anthony McMahon:

the podcast, but with, with, with my business, with Target State, which is, um.

Anthony McMahon:

I've, I'm, I'm partnering up with an alliance where work will hopefully come.

Anthony McMahon:

I'm also making sure at the other end that I've got all the systems in place for

Anthony McMahon:

when that work arrives, because there's no point in me going, yeah, I can do that.

Anthony McMahon:

No, I can't.

Anthony McMahon:

Sorry.

Anthony McMahon:

And I dunno when I can do it.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, 'cause I'm just gonna lose it.

Anthony McMahon:

Well, when I say lose it, not lose it, lose it, lose the opportunity.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, it's, and it is, it's, that's, that's exactly it.

Anthony Perl:

It's so important to, to do that.

Anthony Perl:

And it's a constant struggle in business.

Anthony Perl:

It's, it, it is finding where is the starting point to

Anthony Perl:

make sure you get it right.

Anthony Perl:

So, um, look, I just wanna wrap things up because we, we could talk for ages

Anthony Perl:

and we, but good thing is we've both got podcasts and we're encouraging everyone.

Anthony Perl:

Hey, if you're out there and you're listening right now.

Anthony Perl:

Subscribe to both Biz bytes.

Anthony Perl:

Subscribe to Biz Bites for Thought Leaders, subscribes to, uh, biz Bytes with

Anthony Perl:

a YA hundred percent reminds me of that.

Anthony Perl:

And, uh, and, you know, make sure that you get your best of

Anthony Perl:

both worlds and, uh, so much.

Anthony Perl:

It's so much fun, by the way, to, to have found this.

Anthony Perl:

I can't believe.

Anthony Perl:

I mean, we are both, we are both a hundred plus episodes in Yep.

Anthony Perl:

And it's taken us this long to work it out that, that, uh, there were two

Anthony Perl:

Anthonys out there with, uh, with the same name podcast just spelt differently.

Anthony Perl:

And I guess neither of us bothered to put it in, in, in the search and

Anthony Perl:

go, is there one that spells it down?

Anthony Perl:

You didn't, I didn't think of spelling it with a y Makes perfect

Anthony Perl:

sense, particularly for your podcast.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, and there you go.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah.

Anthony Perl:

That's the way these things happen.

Anthony Perl:

And I guess

Anthony McMahon:

we should, we should do a shout out to Gaylene, uh, Adam's

Anthony McMahon:

Love, who's been a guest a couple of times, I think, on your biz bias.

Anthony McMahon:

I've yet to hear her on mine.

Anthony McMahon:

Yes.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, but she made that connection finally for us both, and, and said, you guys

Anthony McMahon:

need to talk to each other, um, and, and see where it goes from there.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, I should point that out to people That was, uh, Gaylene,

Anthony Perl:

who people will remember and, and, uh, maybe we'll, we'll include a link

Anthony Perl:

to her episode in the show notes, uh, who has been a guest on the program.

Anthony Perl:

And, uh, she got approached by Anthony to, would you be a

Anthony Perl:

guest on my Biz Bites program?

Anthony Perl:

And she's going, hang on.

Anthony Perl:

I think I've been guest on the Biz Bites program with he before.

Anthony Perl:

Um, turns out, no.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, so, so, yeah.

Anthony Perl:

Uh, it's, it's am it's amusing how these things happen and how they, it's such a.

Anthony Perl:

It's such a small world that we're, we are mixing in similar circles even though

Anthony Perl:

we're in different, different countries.

Anthony Perl:

Um, just to wrap things up, I have a question I like to ask my, um, like all

Anthony Perl:

my guests, is, what is the aha moment that people have when they come to work

Anthony Perl:

with you that, uh, you wish more people knew they were gonna have in advance?

Anthony Perl:

Just one.

Anthony McMahon:

Well, just so a view.

Anthony McMahon:

So for me, it's, it's, it, it is that view of, right.

Anthony McMahon:

We can see our way through and, and, um, the aha moment for one

Anthony McMahon:

of the client, probably the most relevant one that I've got is where

Anthony McMahon:

they sit and go, okay, we've just.

Anthony McMahon:

So three years working with this vendor and we never understood what

Anthony McMahon:

they're saying, and you've just come in and in 30 minutes you've had a

Anthony McMahon:

conversation with them and you've just translated it and you've given

Anthony McMahon:

us comfort that, that we're at least getting a good service from that partner.

Anthony McMahon:

Um, or the other side of it is that we're not getting a good service from

Anthony McMahon:

that partner and it's time to move on.

Anthony McMahon:

And that's probably that aha moment when they sat there and said,

Anthony McMahon:

look, we've, we've been beating our head against this wall for, for,

Anthony McMahon:

for three years, for five years.

Anthony McMahon:

We didn't understand what the, what, what our technology

Anthony McMahon:

partners were trying to tell us.

Anthony McMahon:

And you've at least given us that comfort that we're either needing to, to change or

Anthony McMahon:

that we should stay with what we've got.

Anthony Perl:

Yeah, I think it's such a, um, an important.

Anthony Perl:

Thing for people to understand.

Anthony Perl:

And I can totally see why that is a, a, a major, uh, idea for people.

Anthony Perl:

And I've, I've, I've enjoyed chatting about all things, not, not least of

Anthony Perl:

which of the similar podcasts, but, uh, but also, uh, you know, all things

Anthony Perl:

technology because there is so much to consider in the, in this space.

Anthony Perl:

And, uh, I can see why, um.

Anthony Perl:

Choosing that and, and spending that time with you is going to

Anthony Perl:

be such a revelation to people.

Anthony Perl:

And of course, we do always include details in the show notes of how to

Anthony Perl:

get in touch with our guests, and we'll include that including a link.

Anthony Perl:

We'll, we'll make sure we include a link to the podcast as well.

Anthony Perl:

So we like to share each other's audiences.

Anthony Perl:

We want you to listen to both.

Anthony Perl:

So if you're listening to both podcasts, uh, send us both a note.

Anthony Perl:

Um, and it's sort of, I feel like with two Anthonys together, we should

Anthony Perl:

say it's goodbye from me and it's

Anthony McMahon:

goodbye from him.

Anthony Perl:

Love it.

Anthony Perl:

Until next time, don't forget to subscribe to both our podcasts,

Anthony Perl:

uh, and we'll see you next time on Biz Bytes Football Leaders.

Anthony Perl:

Thanks

Anthony McMahon:

so much, Anthony.

Anthony Perl:

Hey, thanks for listening to Biz Bytes.

Anthony Perl:

We hope you enjoyed the program.

Anthony Perl:

Don't forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode.

Anthony Perl:

Biz Bytes is proudly brought to you by podcast done for you, the service

Anthony Perl:

where we will deliver a podcast for you and expose your brilliance.

Anthony Perl:

To the world.

Anthony Perl:

Contact us today for more information, details in the show notes.

Anthony Perl:

We look forward to your company next time on Biz Bytes.

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Learn from Thought Leaders in the Business Professional Services space

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About your host

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Anthony Perl

Anthony is an engagement specialist, building a great catalogue of podcasts of his own and helping others get it done for them. Anthony has spent more than 30 years building brands and growing audiences. His experience includes working in the media (2UE, 2GB, Channel Ten, among others) to working in the corporate and not-for-profit sectors, and for the last 13 years as a small business owner with CommTogether. The business covers branding to websites - all things strategic around marketing. Now podcasts have become central to his business, finding a niche in helping people publish their own, making it easy.